Saturday, June 17, 2006


ADMIN: Messages to administrators.

Updated 26 March 2006
Previous threads are now closed; the topics remain open so that people may go back and view them. Please post to the new rainbow threads!


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Dan/Mi said...

Marilynn, I support diversity of opinion and civil discussions. I'm sure you do also.
While I have your attension, I'd love to learn to post links like some of our tech savvy bloggers, but so far I haven't even been able to register. All I get is "sorry this user name is not available".(I've tried a dozen names) Any idea why?

Marilynn M said...

Dan, have you tried logging in using the name you chose first? I think sometimes it says it rejects you and it really hasn't. Let me know if that doesn't work.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Hi Dan/Mi, I am no tech geek by any means. You should be able to make links just by following the html I showed Deb without having a blogger account.

To create an account and your own blog, click on the Blogger icon on the top left of the banner and follow the instructions for create your own blog.

If you have already registered under "Other" or "Anonymous" you can not use the same name for your own blog most likely. However a slight change, Capital letter, space or number may let you in essense still have the same name.

If you still have trouble log out of the site (top right I think on banner) under your current user name, come back in as a nobody and go straight to create an account and blog.

Good luck.

Dan/Mi said...

Marilynn & Christopher,
Thanks, I'll probably get some time tommorrow to work on it.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Does anyone have the link to Kevin Langdon's web site? I didn't keep track of it, but I'd like to check it out again. Thanks.

deb said...

Dan: I had to use a legnthy "user name" but then it allowed me to put "deb" as the blogger name. These names are in a data base at "" and not just for this blog, so common user names are taken. Try something like DanandJulie or what your wife's name is and it will be easy to remember and still be a go. You then can pick the name you want to show up at the top of each post. Hope this helps.

Here is the link thing again, this is how you would set up a link to buy blue:

(A href="")buy blue(/A)

Now...substitute < and > both times I put ( and )

deb said...

Oh, and Dan, I don't think will allow a "/" in the user name or blogger name.

dan said...

Deb, Thanks, the first step was easy.

dan said...

I'll try to do a link now.
working for change

deb said...

Dan, just type the equation like I typed it only substituting the < for the ( and > for the). Put your address where I put the buy blue address, put the name you want to show up where I wrote "buy blue".

Type it all in the "leave your comment" box at the top of this page. When you click on login and publish it will automatically do it before it gets on the thread.

deb said...

PS... Good Luck. It confused me to pieces before I *got* it. Thanks again Christopher:-)

dan said...



dan said...

Deb and Christopher,
Thanks so much. You're both very patient.

deb said...

Cool Dan...congrats!!!

Judy B. said...

Could we please have a Freedom of choice selection...

Recently the supreme court upheld Oregon's assisted suicide law that has been battered by the Bush administration..

Now Washington's former Governor is going to promote a similar law here.. text follows..
I would love to see a discussion of this.. If you start this new thread, please move this comment to it.. Thank you..

OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) -- Former Washington Gov. Booth Gardner, who has battled Parkinson's disease for more than 14 years, says he will promote an assisted-suicide initiative for Washington in 2008, and predicted state voters would follow the lead of neighboring Oregon in approving it.

Washington voters rejected an assisted-suicide initiative in 1991, but "I think it will pass this time," he told The Associated Press in an interview.

Gardner, 69, told The AP Tuesday that he hasn't yet decided on the scope of the initiative. However, if it follows the outline of the 1991 measure, it would allow a health care provider to prescribe lethal doses of medicine for patients who are within their final months of life with an incurable and irreversible condition.

The 1991 proposal also permitted physicians to administer lethal injections if the person was physically unable to take the prescription. However, the decision to request assisted suicide would have to be made while the patient was clear-headed.

Oregon's law also covers only those with incurable disease and who are of sound mind. At least two doctors must agree the ill have six months or less to live before they can use the law.

The Supreme Court upheld Oregon's law in January, saying the Bush administration improperly used a federal drug law to pursue doctors who prescribed lethal doses of medications.

Gardner said he'll run the measure in 2008, believing that a presidential and gubernatorial election year will draw the largest possible voter turnout and increase the chance of passage. He said polls show 60 percent support among Washington voters for assisted suicide, and he noted that voters in neighboring Oregon have twice supported the issue. Gov. Chris Gregoire said she thinks it is a proper subject for a statewide vote.

"I know this is a very delicate and difficult issue," she told reporters, adding that she once argued in the U.S. Supreme Court that states should retain the right to legislate on the issue.

"I would ask that with this delicate of a decision that we take this to the voters of Washington, much like what was done in the state of Oregon," the governor said.

She said she had made no decision on how she would vote as an individual.

"I have to search my soul and my Catholic faith," Gregoire said.

Gardner said he already is drawing support for his viewpoint.

The former Democratic governor, a millionaire heir to the Weyerhaeuser fortune, led the state from 1985 to 1993. He was well liked and most observers said he could have easily won a third term, but he stepped aside, saying he had "run out of gas."

He now knows that he had undiagnosed Parkinson's. Since then, he has worked as a U.S. trade ambassador in Geneva, in youth sports and for a variety of philanthropic works. "I have good days and bad days," he said in the interview.

Gardner said he plans to have innovative "deep brain surgery" in a few weeks to implant a type of pacemaker that will help restore control of his body. He said doctors tell him he has about 8 percent of the normal control and that the surgery should give him at least five productive years of life, with half the medication.

Gardner apologized to those who might be offended by his plan, but said it should be his decision when and how he dies.

"When I go, I want to decide," he said. "That's why I plan to work on getting `assisted death' in this state."

Judy B. said...

Also could you post a new thread one on the national budget. Here we could highlight (local) budget items that come to our attention, and discuss their implications..

I am posting two articles here and hope you will transfer this commentary to the new BUDGET thread:

Tight budget mustn't sink timetable for dredging
Feb 08, 2006

Port of Longview director Ken O'Hollaren said Tuesday he's pleased that President Bush's fiscal year 2007 budget proposal includes $15 million for deepening the Columbia River, even though it's less than half the amount Lower Columbia ports wanted.

"The point is," O'Hollaren said, "the project is moving forward."

The ports support deepening 102 miles of the river channel from the Pacific Ocean to the Portland-Vancouver area from 40 feet to 43 feet to handle heavier ships. Environmental groups oppose the project.

The Army Corps of Engineers dredged 28 miles last year and plan to deepen another 30 miles this year with $15 million Congress appropriated for fiscal year 2006, corps spokeswoman Heidi Helwig said.

The corps, however, estimates it will need another $65 million to finish the project.

The ports and the governors of Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana asked the Bush administration for $40 million in fiscal year 2007 --- as much money as the corps could logistically spend in one year on the project.

A $40 million appropriation also would position the corps to finish the project by the end of 2008 --- a year later than the corps once planned.

O'Hollaren, president of the six-port Columbia River Channel Deepening Coalition, agreed that at $15 million a year, the project could take several more years to finish.

At least shipping companies know the Bush administration remains committed to the project, and port officials will lobby lawmakers to appropriate more than $15 million, he said.

"We hope to add to that amount once congressional appropriations start in earnest in the spring," O'Hollaren said.

U.S. Rep. Brian Baird, D-Vancouver, said Northwest lawmakers will "fight vigorously to hold ($15 million) as a base and maybe add something to it."

"Obviously, we'd like more, and we'll pursue more, but $15 million as a minimum is not too bad."

deb said...

It's 10:40 eastern time...don't know who's here, but two democrats are on C-Span standing up to the Bush administration and republican Congress. It's good.

Anonymous said...

christin: kevin's site is the group "slicedbread" on

Richard Yarnell said...

Don't know where to put this: it deserves to be seen though. I know there are already a lot of categories but Media didn't quite match.

Common Cause is trying to raise money to fund a series of 3 investigations relating to "Neutral Internet."

In view of what's happening in China as Yahoo, MSN, and even Google struggle to gain a foothold there, the notion that private money could control how access to the net, how services are delivered, is troubling to say the least.

I urge you to take a look at their site and read through the material there regarding corporate control of the internet.

deb said...

Suggestion to Marilynn and Karen since there are just a few of us posting regularly what do you think of posting everything on a couple of open threads. We could archive the rest and open a new thread whenever it gets to maybe 50 posts or so. This way we aren't clicking on the threads to see if there are any new posts.

What do you think? Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

dan said...

Marilynn And Karen,
I like Deb's idea of having just a couple threads.

dan said...

A couple threads might be:

SOAPBOX For general venting
IN THE NEWS Current news items

Any other ideas?

Marilynn M said...

I'll get Karen to work on it tomorrow. You are right we don't need a bunch. I think four would be good. What we do now only concentrated.

Judy B. said...

To add to the discussion about threads:
Could we have one for links where everyone could post new places to go with a brief description about the link...

As it is now, i think i will come back and go thru a link and i can't find it...

Judy B. said...

I would personally like to keep the social Security thread going..
Richard's idea needs some refining and I would hate to get that all tangled up in general conversation...

Richard Yarnell said...

Keep the threads:

I'd rather take time to check the ones that most interest me than lose the organization.

If a utility to flag new posts for each user is too complex or not available, I vote to leave things as they are.

It's not like email where we can post a subject line.


Judy B. said...

Before you chnge the threads or the archive them, i suggest testing the archiev model.. I went to the bottome of the page to chech out what was there and found January 2007...
How did that happen??
Also, is that the way they will be archieved... by month??? and not by idea??

dan said...

We havn't heard much from Marilynn lately. My sources tell me she has run off with John A. and their long standing antagonism was just a ploy. (unconfirmed)

Anonymous said...

"We havn't heard much from Marilynn lately. My sources tell me she has run off with John A. and their long standing antagonism was just a ploy. (unconfirmed"

I heard SSB hired them.

deb said...

I heard they went hunting with the veep.

Marilynn be sure to wear that bright orange bullet proof jacket and pants, oh...and a good helmet with a strobe light on top. You'll look charming.

John a handsome guy like you would need to be in full camouflage;-)

Marilynn M said...

Boy, look at this rumor mill! We are putting in more kitchen cabinets and doing other work on our house. Truth be told my husband is doing the work and I'm the janitor. Personally I don't care if you can see a faint line where the door used to be. STOP sanding.

dan said...

"We are putting in more kitchen cabinets and doing other work on our house."

Now that's a boring end to a hot rumor. My sources have been properly reprimanded.

Good luck with your projects.

deb said...

Marilynn's hubby must still be sanding;)

BTW Marilynn there's tons of things you can make from an internet's pretty fascinating.

deb said...

Dan, Which thread is the Noam Chomsky link on? Didn't have time to read it earlier and can't seem to find it now.

dan said...

The Chomsky speech is in "The World Today" thread...the link is "war on terror".

Chomsky's field is linguistics and I find reading his speeches tedious. But he does have a different take on world affairs that I think is worth considering.

Richard Yarnell said...

It looks like interest in the alternative voting site has petered out. Anyone know who we reach the person who set it up so we can get an idea about the results of the first round?

On a related subject: this list.

We are a small, albeit distinguished group that by and large preaches to the choir. There is, when you add it up, a lot of time invested.

I hope we don't neglect taking our views to a wider audience. There's an election coming up that's going to need a lot of time, energy and dedication.

dan said...

You make a good point. Perhaps Deb's idea of having only a couple threads would help. We could still do a little bantering with a lot less time involved.

skids said...

Richard: I'll put a little time into getting some "sneak preview" results together from the alternate voting over the weekend. I'll have to rework the algorithms a sconch due to not having a vote for every ballot.

Judy B. said...


dan said...

As Marilynn found out, when you don’t post for a few days, the rumors can be brutal. So I’m making a preemptive announcment meant to stop the gossip mongers in their tracks. I’ll be on vacation next week. My traveling companion will be my wife Patty and although our destination is “ Sin City”, no actual decadent behavior is anticipated.

Cheryl V said...

I've found a web site that gives links for all Senators & Congressmen. It also has a Citizen Lobbying Guide.

I haven't gotten around to learning how to make links, but this is it.

This is a very interesting site. They are so conservative, they want to impeach Bush. Take a look at their "Right" links. For a good laugh/cry try "Accuracy in Media". it ain't.

deb said...

Dan, I am so jealous. I love the southwest. Are you going to the Grand Canyon? A few years ago I visited a slot canyon for the first time. Here's the one I visited, but I heard there are at least 100 others.Upper Antelope Slot Canyon For sure one of the most awesome places I've ever been.

PS If my husband and I were going on a trip I'd be expecting at least a bit of decadent behavior;)

Cheryl V said...

The slot canyons are cool, maybe the next time we can afford a big vacation. So far, our favorite national park is Yellowstone. The landscape is like being on another planet, and the wildlife, including buffalo, is abundant.

Karen M said...

Anybody care to check the veracity of this video?

"British Troops Beating Young Iraqis On Camera"
Added February 13, 2006

uploader's summary
This video is shot from a balcony in Iraq, showing British soldiers first moving a group of protesters (some throwing rocks and stuff) out of an area.

Then, the camera guy focuses on these troops pulling some people down the street, they drag these people behind a large wall, and beat the crap out of them.

And the camera man (also a Soldier) is a disgusting psycho, who seems like hes getting off on it.

THIS, is a EXCELLENT example, of why this "war" is a horrible thing. It has become nothing more than an INVASION. US & its Allies, staying around, enforcing our laws, on these people, our presense, creating a reason for more bombings.

Resistance attacks in Iraq arent aimed at civillians, their aimed at the troops. But civillians die as a result. Just like with the US bombs.

Civillians are dying every day in huge numbers in Iraq. And it is a direct result of US occupation. And this type of sick behavior, is going to do nothing but encourage more violence towards our soldiers, and as a result, the innocents in Iraq.

Found it looking for an episode of MTV's Fat Camp. Weird.

Cheryl V said...

Another trajedy of war is what it does to our soldiers. There's a lot of good kids that will be forever changed.

We've more than overstayed our welcome in Iraq. It's time to leave now.

deb said...

Cheryl, Thanks for the conservativeusa link. The fact that good Americans (who bought into the current administrations rhetoric) are wising up gives me much hope for the future.

Hi Karen, Your post tells of some of the atrocities, but that you...some where between a woman and a girl...cares and is willing to learn about these injustices actually overwhelms me. During Viet Nam these images would have been shown on TV. Now it is up to individuals to search for this type of information. I pray that there are many more young people such as yourself that will educate themselves. Knowing the truth is the first step in correcting the problem. I'm sure that you are terribly busy with your last year in high school but wanted to let you know that your posts are always welcome:)

Karen M said...

Thanks Deb and Cheryl.

I'm lucky in that my grandparents have always watched the news with me. I have tapes of me at eight years old with my six-year-old sister, impersonating Katie Curic and Paula Zahn. Our top news stories were the Polly Klass abduction and how OJ Simpson's sock had uniform blood patterns on both sides ("The blood was PLANTED" and "Kato did it!").

Back to the topic of the video, a friend in Scotland said that it showed up in the tabloids in the UK a whil and that he suspects that the commentary was actually added by some weirdherald editor and a couple of journalists.

Marilynn M said...
This is something our media isn't covering.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Was there a link some where on this blog about the large amount of money this administration was spending on faux news reports, paying writers for opinion pieces, the Katrina Channel ect, essentially propaganda with our tax dollars and if so where is it?

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Never Mind. Found one.

deb said...

Marilynn: It's not just Abu Ghraib, it's all of our foreign prisons. There are many reasons for regime change in the US, torture is the formost reason in my opinion.

Marilynn M said...

Deb, I know. I'm ashamed of what our country has become under this administration. Kind of like if I wouldn't do that myself I don't want anyone representing me doing it. Can you believe Bush wanting to sell the Arabs our ports? Just another nail, while no one pays attention. If we survive Bush it is going to take forever to undo the damage he is doing. Never again a President that is looking forward to the end of times. Another indication that he is an idiot if he believes HE would be raptured into heaven.

deb said... your kitchen finished?

Judy B. said...

I got an email from SinceSlicedBread today..
Did you all get one too??

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

No e-mail from SSB for me yet. What did it say?

Richard Yarnell said...

I think there needs to be a reality check on the port "sale." That's not what's happening.

A British company, the name escapes me, has been operating terminals in NY, NJ, and so forth. For reasons possibly associated with the costs of the Iraq invasion, is selling its position in these ports to Dubai Ports World, partially owned (probably a majority position, by the UAE. The arrangement is very similar to the Koreans and others who operate terminals in other American ports.

Except for the somewhat checkered history of the UAE vis a vis the Taliban and its banking practices, the arrangement is not unusual.

However, al Queda and the Taliban have been active in the region. Given the record of the administration in so far as analysis of intelligence coming out of the middle East, its record of wise decisions, etc., it doesn't seem quite right that they would have kept the whole deal secret from everyone.

It's also fishy that they took a $100 Million payment toward reconstruction of New Orleans but did not retain some of the bedrock security arrangements: 1) records to be kept on US soil; 2) An American citizen in an upper-management position, stationed in the US, designated to accept service of warrants and other demands for records.

There were some other irregularities but the most alarming part of the deal is that, like any other terminal operator, DPW will be responsible for checking backgrounds of employees.

We are not selling our ports to anyone, just allowing the sale of leases, equipment, and contracts to the UAE by a British frim.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Even if it wasn't seaport contracts being sold this whole deal smells fishy to me too. The questions you raise Richard are good. I also think this has something to do with the larger Oil/Mid East agenda of Bush and Co. I had not heard of this 100 million payment for New Orleans reconstruction. Who paid or will pay this money to whom?

deb said...

Hi all, My husband has been out of town working for 5 weeks and 3 days:( He is assisting launching a ship and it should have been done weeks ago, but there are problems with the z-drives (they enable a ship to parallel park) and there is no end in sight.

I will be traveling to hang out with him:) I'll have my laptop, but may not have much opportunity to post. I will return. Hope you all enjoy the weekend!!!

Judy B. said...

Richard you raise interesting points.
You may be interested in this mornings Washington Post opinion piece.

Debbie if you read it, don't get upset at the beginning, just follow thru.. It talks about our fiscal problems.

Judy B. said...

I posted the email on the SSB contest thread..
Just more propaganda

Cheryl V said...

The commotion isn't really about the UAE. It just reminds everyone that our ports are not getting any safer, and the country is gradually getting sold out.

I don't know if this sale will make any difference or not, but the sorry funding for port security has surely made us less safe.

Cheryl V said...

For some really troubling reading, check out,

It's about the CIA, torture research, and promoting the drug trade. It makes me ashamed to be an American.

dan said...

Hello everyone,
We're back from a terrific Las Vegas trip. I took a complete break from all news outlets so it'll take awhile to get caught up.

Have a great reunion with your husband. Maybe your presence will help launch a ship. (Thanks for the info on slot canyons...the photos do look awesome and we'll try to visit one on our next trip out west).

dan said...

The Washington Post opinion piece you referenced gave some perspective on the port sale relative to our overall fiscal policy.Port sale & national debt

dan said...

It's Sunday morning and I was just thinking about how different our violent world is from the one envisioned in the lyrics of a couple of my favorite songs. I'll post them on the "Arts" thread.

Judy B. said...

Welcome back Dan...I've missed you.
I will check out your songs. One of my favotites is Imagin.

dan said...

Then we share a favorite song. It took some courage for John Lennon to write and perform "Imagine".

Marilynn M said...

I can't believe we are letting the UAE buy anything in this country. Let alone twenty-two port operations. In fact why are any foreign companies operating any of our ports? China owns Long Beach Port operation. Does this seem ridiculous considering our sanctions on Cuba all these years? Mike Malloy on Air America said this port sale was approved six months ago. He also said that the news has been put out there by Rove as a smoke screen to confuse and hide other worse things. Might it be that Bush is trying to go to war with Iran? He asked for an emergency 75 million to help the people of Iran attain democracy. Does anyone else not give a shit if they have democracy or not? Especially Bush's brand of democracy.

Judy B. said...

Hey Marilyn.. and the rest of you..we are discussing the port issue (and gas prices, and civil war in Iraq, and school levies, etc.) on my hometown newspaper blog.
come on over and join the fun. I will warn you though, you can't say "shit". and they are very slow about posting your comment. You could all add a dimension to the home grown thoughts.

Richard Yarnell said...

The Cuban sanctions are a travesty.

As to port "ownership:"

It's not ownership. They own leases on terminal facilities. I suspect they bought them fair and square. We've (American companies) have been doing that sort of thing around the world for decades.

FWIW, since the union has the docks pretty well covered, I can't think of a better way to introduce China to western business than to introduce them to labor relations our way.

I don't know whether they still do, but at least one of the Japanese auto manufacturers used to control a terminal in Portland. It made sense. They had so much traffic coming in it was advantageous for them to schedule the facility on their terms. Now they assemble the cars in the US. That makes sense too.

dan said...

Of all the things this President has done to make our country less secure, the port deal is probably the least serious. I'm just overjoyed that he's finally taking some heat over something! He'll get no sympathy from me.

Judy...I checked out your local's set up pretty you post under Judy?

Marilynn...I know you've been busy with your home improvement projects but I'm glad you've still got enough energy to give W hell now and then.

Marilynn M said...

Thanks Dan, I haven't been working on the house. I made pizzas and hurt my arm rolling out the dough. The pizza was almost worth it.

Just because foreign companies have been operating our ports for years doesn't mean it is a good idea. Especially a foreign country owned company. The ports are part of our infrastructure. It's time to take them back. Why not let them operate our Airports? Because it would be dangerous. The seaports are in my opinion far more dangerous. Why should some other country know what comes in or goes out of our ports. If they want to know they can operate the docks in their country and see what we send there.

Suppose we went to war with them? Sure, we can kick them out. But, the main military port in Texas would be without a company in place to ship out equipment. That is just for starters. They decide which containers get inspected? Too easy to bring in things we don't want here. I don't care if GWB holds hands with all those guys. I don't trust them, or him.

dan said...

Sorry about your arm injury. I hope it's not too painful and that you heal fast.

You do make some good points about the port deal. Because of the public outcry, maybe our port security will finally get some attention.

deb said...

Hello to all! Z-drive on the ship still not working, but Jeff actually has had a few days off.

Cheryl, That story is an eye opener. My hope is that if we get dems in power in Congress we will investigate these types of programs and put an end to them. I certainly don't want my tax dollars paying for those things.

Dan, Did you win?

Judy, I'll check out the blog link.

Richard, I understand leasing ports to Japan and Great Britian, but think that it is probably taking jobs from Americans. Since money helping fund the 9/11 attacks came through Dubai I just don't trust that a select few of them could use their positions in the company to further the Al Queda agenda.

Marilynn, Good to hear from you!

Whenever I think of the ports deal I remember the pictures of Rumsfeld and Hussein shaking hands in 85. Our current leadership doesn't have a great track record of selecting the best people to be doing business with.

dan said...

Good to hear from you. I hope you and Jeff enjoy your reunion.

Did I win? Unlike Marilynn, I didn't "hurt my arm rolling out the dough". We gambled in moderation, had lots of fun and the losses were minor. It was a great escape.

Good luck with the z-drive problem.

Marilynn M said...

I'm planning to go to Oklahoma Saturday to visit the Indian Casino. I can pull those handles with my feet if I have to. I'm not going to think one time all weekend about the world mess.

We are already into Spring here. Ten inches below normal on rain. I can hardly wait to get out in the yard and start planting stuff. I'm going to replace my fish I killed last summer adding water to the pond and have a timer on the faucet this year. I had beautiful Democrat fish. They would come up and eat food from my fingers. It never occurred to me they could be pets. Howard Dean was beautiful.

Tomorrow the court is going to decide if Tom Delay's redistricting of Texas is legal. Let's hope they decide it isn't.

dan said...

I hope you enjoy your Saturday trip to the casino...just don't make the same mistake this woman made:
A woman was in a casino for the first time. The spinning ball of the roulette wheel has always caught her attention. She decides to play at the roulette table and she says, "I have no idea what number to play."

A young, good-looking man nearby suggests she play her age. Smiling at the man, she puts her money on number 29. The wheel is spun, and 36 comes up. The smile drifts from the woman's face and she faints.

Richard Yarnell said...

[I'm putting this here because I don't see a more approrpriate one.]

A couple of weeks ago, the Clackamas Dems were addressed by a group trying to get signatures for a petition demanding the return of Oregon Guard members. Their resolution was filled with emotional statements, many of which could not be substantiated even when they pulled at the heart. Susan (my partner) and I managed to get the
resolution postponed while she worked on it. This is the result.

If anyone can make use of it in your state, by all means, do. She emphasized the role of the Governor, our state's legislation, and the value of Guard personnel in the organization of Oregon's response to natural disaster (we have forest fires).

I think it is a reasonable and responsible approach to many questionable policies: misuse of the Guard and reserves; an invasion masquerading as an (undeclared) war; misuse of "stop loss;" and the appropriation of much needed

I also believe it can serve as the basis for objecting to using the military in domestic law enforcement situations as new "Homeland Security" proposals that have been made by the administration.
Resolution Calling on Governor Kulongoski to Demand the return of Oregon National Guard Troops from Iraq and Afghanistan

Whereas the Governor of the State of Oregon is the Commander in Chief of the Oregon militia;

Whereas the Oregon National Guard was created(1) to protect Oregon's citizens from natural disasters and threats of violence, and to augment the armed forces of the United states only during a properly declared war(2);

Whereas the Congress of the United States has not declared war against either Afghanistan or Iraq;

Whereas members of the Oregon National Guard have been subjected to involuntary extension of their service contracts by a device intended for use during wartime
or extended domestic emergencies and, whereas their families, employers, and communities have been obliged share the hardship caused by application of "Stop Loss"(3);

Whereas such a large number of National Guard members, in their civilian careers serve as firefighters, police, EMT personnel, and prison guards that their Oregon
communities have been left ill-prepared to deal with natural disaster, civil disturbance, or terrorist attack; and

Whereas the Governor has a particular responsibility to the members of the Oregon National Guard, their families, their communities, and to all the citizens of the State to safeguard them and the States resources;

Now therefore, the [insert filing entity] calls on the Governor to demand the immediate return of all Oregon National Guard troops presently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the immediate replacement of all equipment assigned to Oregon National Guard Units and shipped overseas for use during those invasions and occupations so that, in the future, the Oregon militia will be capable,
properly trained, and equipped to fulfill its primary mission at home, and so the people of Oregon can, in good conscience, encourage its sons and daughters to join the Oregon militia confident it will be left to fulfill its crucial domestic role.

(1) ORS 396.305 establishes the Oregon Military Department. ORS Chapters 396, 398, and 399 contain the Oregon National Guard authorities and duties.

(2)Title 10 U.S.C. 12301(a) provides that, in time of war or national emergency declared by the Congress, the entire membership of all reserve components or any lesser number can be called to active duty for the duration of the war or national emergency plus 6 months.

The seven reserve components are the Army Reserve, Army National Guard, Air Force Reserve, Air National Guard, Naval Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, and Coast Guard Reserve. (

(3)"Stop Loss" is a program that allows the service to temporarily halt all separations and retirement during times of war, deployments, or National Emergency.

dan said...

Richard & Susan,
Congratulations, you've created a wonderful document, brilliant in its simplicity. Are the local Democrats going to use it in the form of a petition? It does seem like it would be very adaptable to other states. Good work!

Richard Yarnell said...

We suspect they will. The sitting Gov is being challenged by people in his own party (Dems) so he will have to respond. It will be interesting to see how the law applies. If he gets behind it, he might get re-elected.


Judy B. said...

I gpt ampther email from SSB today inviting me back to their site to "tag" the entries..
guess I will check it out.

Richard Yarnell said...

Actually, this tagging business could be important. I sent the following message to SSB (

There are many "ideas," I use the term loosely, that did not come close to meeting the requirements of the "contest." A couple of tags to indicate this would be useful: "opinion" (of the author), "statement of faith," "irrelevant," "ineligible,"
"disqualified," or "not qualified."

If you can think of others and if you agree, send them your own suggestions. Feel free to include any of the above.

Richard Yarnell said...

I may have, in a pique of disgust, shot myself in the foot. When the "finalists" were announced and so many ideas failed to meet the contest criteria, I withdrew permission for SSB to use my entries. They said OK and removed them from the index, although I could still find them. Now they're gone altogether.

Needless to say, the BEST ideas are no longer available to tag.


Judy B. said...

richard, I hope that you saved them some other way. I would certainly like to see all of your ideas.

Judy B. said...

I see on tv that there has been some unseasonally high amounts of rain and flooding in paradise.

Are you and yours ok??

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Dry as a bone in Kihei on the island of Maui. It was Oahu and Kauai that got all the rain and the Kaupo/Hana section of Maui. Kihei has been deficient in our normal winter rains and this last system just lingered for days but never really made it to Maui.

Richard I wouldn't really worry to much about your ideas being removed from the SSB site, I doubt that it will generate much traffic. I got the "tag" e-mail and checked out their new blog and the first few comments were lambasting them for their pathetic sham of a contest. If you are having squab dinners with politicians you do not need SEIU to act as a lobbyist on your behalf. Next time you have one of them over maybe you could arm wrestle them for a vote for the good of the country.

deb said...

Richard, You can create a "tag" just by typing it in. I recommend not tagging ideas that should be passed over...they will not show up under any heading if they are not tagged. If only the best ideas are tagged they will be visible to anyone searching.

Judy B. said...

I have decided to "tag" the entries that I reviewed (over 500) for personal reasons. I believe that therr are some issues that I might take to the powers that be in the local community, and with the ideas generated by SSB, I think I can make a case.
The first one that I have in mind is gooing to the Electrical Workers Union and the Public Utility District to get a solar apprenticeship and a buyback program started.
So, those of you who are tagging, if you come across energy ideas that include alternative concepts, please tag the solar ones,,

Marilynn M said...

Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Source Free

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

dan said...

Marilynn, Good stuff. I also found a follow up talking about the Bush Administration and the fourteen characteristics.

Modern Fascism

Marilynn M said...

Thanks Dan, doesn't it scare hell out of you? It does me. Maybe we better impeach him and any that follows, just to keep them busy.

dan said...

You know who scares me more than this misguided and reckless Administration? It's the American voters. I can't figure out why they put this group in power TWICE and what choises they're going to make in the future.

Marilynn M said...

The voters are ignorant. Most registered as whatever their parents are and never put any thought into it since. They don't know what they are for or against, just what party.

I can understand it. Early voting has started here and except for the little information in the stupid little newspaper and the signs along the streets we know nothing about the candidates.

It ought to be a law that voter pamphlets are sent out with information about each candidate. In Texas ignorance is bliss. I've tried to find out about them with no luck so I'm voting against the incumbents. Which will be easy because the are all Bush Republicans.

dan said...

Marilynn, I hope you enjoyed your weekend trip to the casino. Is your arm mended yet (from your pizza dough ordeal)?

I guess voters get it right in the long run but they're so darn slow to tune in that it can be frustrating.

deb said...

Thanks for the facist links. A scary eye opener!

The true division in the country is between those of us who read and the ones who catch bits and pieces of news from TV.

Sometimes I encourage conversation in the local pub to get them talking about the state of the nation, and sit back and listen about their "take" on things. It is quite the eye opener. One prominent local explained to me how being gay and being a pediaphile were the same thing...I think Jerry Faldwell explained it to her.

I talked with another about the deficit (usually a safe subject) and he wasn't even aware that we are increasing the annual deficit.

Since we are all in this together one of my main concerns has been how to educate fellow citizens. I mean who am I as compared to the talking heads on the TV. The "heads" have to be right...right?

Any suggestions?

Richard Yarnell said...

There aren't informative "Voter Pamphlets" in all states? Wow!

Here in Oregon we have a Pamphlet, lately it's become a book, a couple of election cycles back it was in two volumes, that provides all the usual how to register and vote stuff in detail, but also provides candidate photos and bios on all candidates, initiative information, and detailed information on all issues on which a vote is required.

Ballot itiatives appear in full together with summaries (written by bipartisan commitees of the legislature if they are referred from either house, budget impact statements, and then as many 300 word statements pro/con as advocates wish to pay to publish.

Candidates have a place to provide a bio and brief statement of platform.

Bond issues are presented in full and almost always have accompanying pro/con statements.

I'm stunned: what good is an election without an informed electorate?

These pamphlets are mailed to every registered voter well in advance of every election and contain National, State, County, City, and other jurisdictions appropriate for that voter. I've never seen stats on how many people read them, but everyone I know does. There was a budget issue about the cost of puplication and there was a general uprising when it was proposed to eliminate them. They raised the price of advocacy statements to $2/word to cover some of the cost.

Richard Yarnell said...

On the deficit:

Make sure they understand the difference between the deficit and the national debt.

Once they understand what the deficit is, they will jump to the conclusion that spending is too high. Taxes always are.

I try to find a way to put it in personal terms by first finding out whether there are things they don't think the government is doing adequately. That leads to a discussion about whether there is any other way to deliver the services and who can do it fairly and cheaply.

Whether you can persuade them they should pay enough in taxes to pay for the services the government provides - well, results will vary based on your eloquence and mastery of the facts and their pig headedness.

A lot of folks just won't listen.

dan said...

I can almost hear the "pub" conversation from here. The least informed are also the most confident of their beliefs. A direct lightning bolt stike to their brain wouldn't even begin to penetrate. Even when that group votes "correctly" it's not from any understanding of the issues, more just a sense that things are screwed up.

" main concerns has been how to educate fellow citizens..."

I had a little success during the last election cycle getting some letters to the editor published. (only in Detroit & suburban papers...I struck out with the NY Times) I think people change their minds only gradually so just planting a seed of doubt about their current beliefs is progress.

Deb, you're very articulate, and one of the most persuasive writers I've ever encountered. You just needs a wider audience to have an impact.

dan said...

"...results will vary based on your eloquence and mastery of the facts and their pig headedness..."

Well put. I don't think I've ever changed anyone's opinion during a discussion. I considerate it a success if I put a slight crack in their armor that may widen with time.

Judy B. said...

Washington state, like Oregon, puts out an informative voters pamphlet at every election cycle. If your state doesn't do this i would suggest talking to the nearest League of Women Voters group. this is something that they could champion, without it being too political.

Judy B. said...

I did a little peeking at the new blogs over on SSB this weekend. Discovered that hardly anyone was blogging. One thread had some old disgusted bloggers telling them off.. including Daniel, John, Duncan... and a message to go vote at

I thought I would check in today and found that the blog had been changed to "updates" and that they had taken down all the new comments.
It is kind of fun to watch them squirm, trying to figure out what to do next...

Marilynn M said...

Deb, I've been seriously considering printing up some things like the Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism. Making a small "newspaper" and slinging it into peoples yards under cover of darkness. It is possible to make people think if you get their attention. I've had one sucess. My former neighbor was a lifelong Republican. I converted him and he has turned into a rabid Democrat. Now that he see's the light he wants to convert everyone.

Marilynn M said...

No, not every state has voter pamphlets. I think it is intended to keep people ignorant. When I first moved here it was election time. I didn't vote because I knew nothing about the candidates. Silly me, in Texas that is the name of the game. I long for a California or Oregon pamphlet. At least there you can find out the basics. I can understand Texas not wanting them. Can you imagine Tom Delay's bio? The old fool that is our congressman thinks cancer can be cured with aloe vera. We can't dig too deep around here.

Cheryl V said...

I've lived in Louisiana, North Carolina, and Alabama. I don't remember ever seeing any voter pamphlets.

The newspapers print bio blurbs just before the election. The info comes from each of the campaign offices. Usually its just name, age, occupation, religion, education, memberships. Maybe a quote from the candidate.

dan said...

"...I've had one success. My former neighbor was a lifelong Republican. I converted him and he has turned into a rabid Democrat.."

That's more success than I've had. Although after 5+ yrs of Bush, I hope there's a few people I've talked with who don't think I'm as dumb as they once did.

I love your passion but "Making a small "newspaper" and slinging it into peoples yards under cover of darkness" may be a bit much for your Texas neighbors to handle.

Marilynn M said...

Can you believe Delay won the primary? I'm sending money to his opponent. I have never been so poorly informed about an election in my life. I read the paper and watch the news and have never heard of most of the people I voted for. No wonder the people in Texas don't vote. Does anyone have an extra voter pamphlet they could send me? I intend to see that we have them before the next election.

Cheryl V said...

What disgusts me is hearing the news coverage. They keep saying that Democrats are happy that Delay won because he will be easier to beat than a different Republican.
Unfortunately there probably isn't any Democrat that can beat him. We would be a lot better off with a different Republican in office. Besides, it's a lot easier to beat someone that isn't an incumbant.

deb said...

Hi Ya'll! I'm short on time these days but here's a big {{{hug}}} for everyone. I'm way behind on reading the blog and apologize for not responding; will catch up asap.

Wanted to share this story concerning separation of church and state:

Bush executive order creates faith-based community center at Homeland Security

PS: Thanks again for this blog Marilynn and Karen. I have felt so alone in my beliefs, it is very reassuring to belong to this group of people who can realistically "see" what is happening and offer logical solutions. Thanks to you all!

Marilynn M said...

I heard that Democrats voted for Delay their thinking is he will be easier to beat than the others. Let's hope they are right. I'm so sick of all the criminals. I'm also livid about more faith based crap. I guess we have to have something to fall back on when Bush is finished destroying all social programs.

dan said...

{{Deb}} It's good to hear from you. I thought we might have lost you to the intellectual crowd at your pub.

Somehow, Bush's new "Faith Based Community Center" as part of Homeland Security doesn't reasure me at all. Maybe his "Theocracy Police Force" can haul me in and explain it to me. I hope I'm not on Pat Robertson's hit list.

dan said...

"... when Bush is finished destroying all social programs..."

The Neo-Cons Manifesto clearly states that all social spending is an improper diversion of revenue from its intended purpose of world domination by the highly connected.

The Theocracy Police will explain it to you down at the station (see you there).

Marilynn M said...

I got a new electric leaf blower. You know it is exactly the reverse of a vacuum cleaner? Soooo If you open the back door and use it to sweep the kitchen floor it works very well, and much faster. Note: pick up any loose newspapers first. Look out Martha here I come!

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Yes, I use my blower to "vacumn" my truck before I wash it. Just remove any loose change, open both doors and presto every bit of crud disappears.

Marilynn M said...

Great idea. I hate cleaning cars. Much better than a vacuum cleaner. I love that blower. I have no cartilage in my right elbow so sweeping is painful. I usually vacuum everything, and spray the sidewalks, driveway and patio with the hose. It wouldn't be a good idea to sweep the house out with it if there was much dirt on the floor but it was fun.

Judy B. said...

Too bad you can't blow GW right out of the White House.. or Delay out of office...
I remember when Texas had two great women in office... Barbara Jordan and Ann Richards...sorry to hear of Richards health problems>

dan said...

Hello Judy,
If you ever want to learn how to do "links", Deb left some good instructions at the bottom of this blog (scroll to the "Reply to Andy Stern" comments....Deb at 7:41). It took me numurous attempts before I got it.

I also admire the two Texas women you mentioned. Maybe it's just the Texas men who screw thinks up.

dan said...

Yesterday morning Deb was kind enough to tip us off to a recent Executive Order. I've stumbled on another one as reported in the "Onion". I'll post a link under the govt. thread.

dan said...

Sorry Judy, The letter to Andy Stern is gone and also Deb's "links" instructions. I'll post instructions on the seldom used insult thread in case you ever want to try your hand at it.

deb said...

I am seriously going to work on getting the voter pamphlets in NC. Good idea about the League of Women voters, Judy. I'm new here and it has taken a while just to get caught up with local protocol and who's who.

Great ideas about the leaf blower Marilynn and Christopher...but I like Judy's use for the blower best;)

Congrats on the "liberation" of your neighbor Marilynn, one less vote for *them* and one more for us. Plus, it sounds as if it will have the snowball effect since your neighbor has seen the light.

Thanks for the compliment Dan. I grew up in a logical/realistic home. Dad was an engineer and WWII vet and Mom a teacher. I was taught to be fair, non-judgemental in situations where others rights weren't infringed upon, and to rely on common sense. I raised my kids with the same ethics. Up until the time the country/government/media started raking Clinton over the coals about absolutely anything he (or Hillary) did I honestly believed that most adults used similar values to function in life. It saddens me, but I now know that "appearance and gossip" rule most people's lives.

Cheryl, I have become such a skeptic that when I hear the media promoting something (such as dems being happy about DeLay) I start looking for the motive behind it. I think in this case that by saying that the dems were "happy" about him they were able to bypass the real things dems (and anyone that reads) are saying about DeLay.

It looks like the threads are still all here, Dan. Are they back on your PC?

Marilynn or Karen: I'd like to start a new open thread as this one is getting long. I botched it last time and request that one of you set it up:)

dan said...

My Breadcrusts home page looked different for awhile yesterday, with 2/3 of the threads missing. It looks normal today.

Richard Yarnell said...

Habeas Schmabeas

I've just posted an article in "State of the Union." It goes very much to the issue of whether this Union will survive if we don't begin, soon, demanding our liberties and those of others.

Marilynn M said...

Good News, McClatchy News is buying Knight Ridder! They publish the Sacramento Bee one of the best newspapers I've ever read. I can't help thinking the left has come up with money to buy some newspapers. McClatchy only has eleven papers and Knight Ridder has thirty-something. I hope they publish newspapers like the Sacramento Bee in all those towns. People might actually know what is happening.

The Philadelphia Inquirer
The Miami Herald
San Jose Mercury News
The Kansas City Star
Fort Worth Star-Telegram
The Charlotte (N.C.) Observer
St. Paul (Minn.) Pioneer Press
Contra Costa (Calif.) Times
Akron (Ohio) Beacon Journal
Philadelphia Daily News
The (Columbia, S.C.) State
Lexington (Ky.) Herald-Leader
The Wichita (Kan.) Eagle
(Miami) el Nuevo Herald
The (Macon, Ga.) Telegraph
The (Boise) Idaho Statesman
Belleville (Ill.) News-Democrat
The (Myrtle Beach, S.C.) Sun News
(Biloxi, Miss.) Sun Herald
Columbus (Ga.) Ledger-Enquirer
The (Bradenton, Fla.) Herald
Duluth (Minn.) News Tribune
The (Wilkes-Barre, Pa.) Times Leader
The (Fort Wayne, Ind.) News-Sentinel
The (San Luis Obispo, Calif.) Tribune
The (Monterey County, Calif.) Herald
The (Olympia, Wash.) Olympian
Grand Forks (N.D.) Herald
(State College, Pa.) Centre Daily Times
The Bellingham (Wash.) Herald
(Aberdeen S.D.) American News
The Olathe (Kan.) News

dan said...

Howdy Marilynn,
It's good to hear from you and in a good mood to boot. I hope you're right about this purchase being good for journalism.

dan said...

Molley Ivans latest column is teriffic. I posted it in "The World Today" thread.

deb said...

Thanks for the list Marilynn. The Charlotte Observer is in the newspaper boxes in front of stores around here. I'll start checking it out.

Judy B. said...

My local paper had several articles of interest today. One on sex education, posted under education; one on politics, posted under elections:and four I posted under energy, although two of them could have been posted under environment.

I hope you will read them as I think they show movement towards dealing with national issues.

richard I would particularly like your comments on the Northwest energy articles.

dan said...

Here's a link to some St. Patrick's Day drinking songs:

Some Irish Songs

Just scroll down the page to see the song list.

deb said...

Thanks Dan and a Happy Saint Patrick's Day to you! I'm listening to the tunes while I check my e-mail. I'm walking down to the pub shortly to see what's happening.

This area was mainly settled by Irish and Scottish immigrants. I'm 1/2 Irish (mostly, I suppose), 1/4 Scottish and 1/4 Croatian. My Scot and Croation grandparents were immigrants. The Irish goes back to both of the potato famines and a few others could be mixed in.

Danny Boy was one of my Granny's favorites. She had a beautiful voice. Her grandparents on one side were immigrants so her father still had the accent and she could speak with a perfect Irish accent, and dance the "jig". My Scot grandmother could speak Gaelic. Oh, I just realized that Granny sang "The Irish Lullaby" too. Thanks so much for the trip down memory lane:))

dan said...

I'm glad you enjoyed the music. I hope your trip to the pub included a little singing and maybe even an Irish jig in honor of your great granny.

deb said...

Got this in my e-mail...wanted to share...

TRIVIA What Is A Billion?
A Billion is a difficult number to comprehend. The next time you hear a politician use the word "Billion," casually think about whether or not you want the politician spending your tax money. One advertising agency did a good job of putting that figure into perspective in one of its releases.
1. A Billion Seconds ago -- it was 1973.
2. A Billion Minutes ago -- Jesus was alive.
3. A Billion Hours ago -- our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
4. A Billion Days ago - No One walked on two feet on earth.
5. A Billion Dollars ago -- was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our government spends it.

dan said...

Thanks for sharing that e-mail Deb.
I'm going to save it for future use.

dan said...

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$2.43 billion per day since September 30, 2005!

dan said...

I normally post stories about outrageous conduct by our government, corporations or MSM etc. Since nobody needs a steady diet of such stories, today I set out to find something to post that would be lighthearted and entertaining. I failed big time.

I was driving home, listening to an NPR interview. A spokesman for Greenpeace was explaining that his organization had been audited by the IRS and how that had come about.

A group called "Public Interest Watch", funded almost 100% by Exxon Mobile, had enough clout to trigger the audit questioning the tax exempt status of Greenpeace.

The real beef of course is that Greenpeace is vigorously sounding the alarm about global warning. Exxon is spending a portion of its windfall profits in funding anyone(politicians,think tanks, *scientists* etc.) willing to discredit the facts indicating climate change.

Greenpeace came out sqeaky-clean in the audit. What I found disturbing is that Exxon's money was so effective in buying phony science and a politically motivated IRS audit. I guess Washington is for sale.

Democracy Now interview

dan said...

Exxon buys influence

dan said...

Lets drink a toast to Exxon

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Ok here goes this may have done it Deb and Judy.

From Judy Originally

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

It worked. It may only work until April 1st though because my Carlyle Group owned phone company/internet provider is doing the final switchover then and I will have a new ISP and e-mail and, and, and.....

It is going to take a few days for me to get reorganized

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Well Deb trying to get this to work is sure keeping me busy. Another try.

Judy's Eyeball Exercise

I am off to hike the Crater in the am so I hope this works.

deb said...

Sorry Christopher, didn't know it would be hard...I feel like the lady in your new story that uses all sorts of technology but can't turn off the water outside;) Well, actually I'm the other way around. If it needs done around the house I'm fairly efficient...but when it comes to technology I usually asked my kids to do it and now I don't know how and they have their own places.

Note to all: Christopher has a couple of new stories at his web site.

{{{thnak you Christopher}}}

Marilynn M said...

Facists at work in Texas!
"Texas Cracks Down on Drunkenness in Bars
SAN ANTONIO, Texas (March 23) - Texas has begun sending undercover agents into bars to arrest drinkers for being drunk, a spokeswoman for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission said on Wednesday.

The first sting operation was conducted recently in a Dallas suburb where agents infiltrated 36 bars and arrested 30 people for public intoxication, said the commission's Carolyn Beck.

Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkeness, Beck said.

The goal, she said, was to detain drunks before they leave a bar and go do something dangerous like drive a car.

"We feel that the only way we're going to get at the drunk driving problem and the problem of people hurting each other while drunk is by crackdowns like this," she said."

What this article fails to mention is that they arrested people in hotel bars that were headed for their rooms. Arresting someone because they "might" drive drunk is right up there with arresting someone that has a cigarette lighter because they might start a fire. or a man being arrested because he owns a penis. No telling what he might do with that. The conservative Christians are winning this war. I'm afraid.

dan said...

As usual Marilynn, your radar picks up facists trends at their early stages. The religious right has won some battles, but they won't win "this war". Americans are slow to see what is happening, but they'll *get it* soon.

Thank you and Karen for the blog changes. The number of threads seems about right.

Richard Yarnell said...

I guess I missed something.

What's the significance of the colors?

It appears that all the other threads are dead.

By chance, I hit an old shortcut to the SSB and looked at the list of really-good-ideas-we-missed which have been picked up by those that are "tagging."

I'm pleased to report that currently #2 under the name "Elizabeth," is one I wrote together with several members of my Pomona College (1964) class - in other words, it was the class contribution. It's worth reading some of the comments that we added to flesh out what we have in mind.

I'll check here to learn how the new regime is supposed to work and where we're supposed to put additions to established threads.


Marilynn M said...

Richard, the colors mean nothing. I was just tired and couldn't think of anything so I had her use colors. Notice there is no Red thread. She refused.
The threads were getting too long. We left them for rereading. Just add to them here. I know they should be more organized but we will figure it out. There were too many threads and it was easy to miss things.

Judy B. said...

Richard, i followed your lead...
"By chance, I hit an old shortcut to the SSB" ....."I'm pleased to report that currently #2 under the name "Elizabeth,"
but once again I am stymied..I can't figure out what you did, or what they are doing over at SSB...
How in the world did you figure out that that you are #2 under Elizabeth...
I see no way to go into the system to get results..
Please explain. I would like to know if any of my ideas are moving frward...

dan said...

On the Bread Crust home page has the Notable Links (currently Bob Geiger) always been there? I've never noticed it before.

Richard Yarnell said...

SSB home page
A slice above
and then there's an internal link that leads to a list of two dozen of the top flagged ideas.

The Pomona College Class of 1964 (Elizabeth) has slipped to three today

deb said...

Richard, The "WHO am I voting for?" pamphlet is at number one today (3/30). I have sent a copy to the dems running in NC. I also suggested that they check out the SSB ideas searching by the "tag" words.

Judy B. said...

One of my iseas, ""Clean fresh water" is number 4 this morning.
Thank you richard for helping me follow the links.

Judy B. said...

I realize that most of youhave decided to stat away from SSB, but since richard explained about the tagging I have foound that several of my ideas are amoung the top ideas, so i am wondering if you all have anything to do with that...
As of this morning, 7 of my ideas are in the top 40, with 3 of them in the top 5.
Christopher, election is #10 and I tagged it this morning, so it may move up..

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Yes Judy I have mostly stayed away. I have kinda cruised the site to see what is going on, but SEIU's performance with the contest makes my expectations of anything they may accomplish as lobbyists in Washington low and jaded.

Congratulations to you and the Pomona Class of 64 for having your good ideas rise to the top. I'll go look to see how mine may have got on the list.

My ISP is supposed to be switching today from Verizon to my New Carlyle Group They do not even have their home page up yet. My e-mail address is changing and this may set off a chain of events that may take some time to re-organize. It looks like it is going to rain all day so I am ready to go and they are still farting around.

dan said...

Judy I just dropped by SSB and voted for your ideas. Congrat. & good luck. I also voted for Christopher's idea but I couldn't find Richard's Eliz.

Judy B. said...

Richard the item most tagged is about a voters pamphlet, subbmitted by an Elizabeth. Is that the one you referenced???
It has stayed in #1 ever since I forst looked at the listings.. good work, if that is the one..

Richard Yarnell said...

No, that's not the one. The voter pamphlet description is very similar to what is supplied to all voters in all elections here in Oregon. The candidate's information is not standardized (a good idea, I think) but most candidates offer up about the same kind of thing, including a photo. All propositions and initiatives get a full printing, a committee drafted impact statement, and pro and con statements in space that is purchased.

The Pomona entry is called DEMOCRACY/ECONOMY RELY ON EDUCATION and can be found at:

Be sure to read the reviews which, in some cases, elaborate on the abreviated description in the entry.

dan said...

Richard, I was able to find your idea and gave it the check mark. That idea along with Christophers and some by Judy continue to be highlighted in the top 40.

Judy B. said...

Christina from Mass also has 2 in the mix...

dan said...

And Debbie has an idea at no.43.

Judy B. said...

I foound debbie's but it wasn't at #43 now.. need to put up titles.
Debbie, where is you Fairness doctrine idea?? I went thru Alabama looking for it and couldn't find it... Give us a number..

deb said...

Judy, when I first came to the SSB site, it was with the intention of posting an idea to Restore the Fairness Doctrine. A quick search showed me that more than a few people had already posted it. The first that I could find was idea #428.

My idea "America's Worst Problem" is at 17 today 4/4. It is not even an idea, I just posted it hoping to draw attention to the lack of real news that we get from our media.

My idea #15856 is what I hoped would help to take the country in a different direction. The title is "Accurate Information for the Public". I had envisioned SSB having a daily internet news show to compete with mainstream media. I believed then, as I do now, that if we had just a regular news hour that we could watch on the internet then enough people would be educated about what is happening. I was hoping for something moderate enough to attract all audiences (hence the Walter Chronkite suggestion). I believe that this could be low budget...someone read the news (National and World), interviews with the people who have been ignored (Clint Curtis, et al) and that is it.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

I am a bit curious as to how the voting for "A Slice Above" is working and if it is prone to the same multiple e-mail account votes as in the past incarnation of SSB. My Election idea and many others keep rising and sinking. I have not been participating in voting or tagging just lurking at this point. It is so easy to wander off in another direction on the internet.

It is now 4-4, the day was supposed to be 4-1, and my new ISP is still not anywhere near fully functional. The only switch they have accomplished is the e-mail service. I guess I am lucky to be connected at all but I am bit concerned that they couldn't just go live after 11 months of planning. It's not like they are re-inventing the wheel.

dan said...

I just reviewed Debbie's "Class Action Lawsuit Against The Media".
SSB then put it on the home page under "Resently Reviewed".

dan said...

Christopher, I have no idea of what they're doing at SSB. Ideas are bouncing around like a pin-ball gone wild.

And best of luck with your new *service*.

deb said...

I have a favor to ask...would y'all click "yes" and leave a comment on Idea # 428, that is, of course if you are in support of restoring the Fairness Doctrine. I don't know how many posts and clicks it would need to rise into the ranks, but once in the ranks it may be noticed...which, I believe, is a good thing.

The voter phamplets are a good thing, too. I'm glad they are at the top and being noticed.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...


Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Restore the Fairness Doctrine,idea #428 is number 45 on the list now. Was it even on there before?

deb said...

No, it wasn't {{{Christopher}}}...thanks

dan said...

I'm glad to help get the "Restore The Fairness Doctrine" idea more exposure. I checked "yes" this morning and I'll write a review later today.

Judy B. said... your 1:05 pm post..I have been wondering the same..I have been watching my ideas get boounced all over the place so i believe that people must be voting...
HOWEVER.. the idea in position number 1 has never changed in all that time, so what does that mean?
As to multiple voting on an idea... guess it could happen with different accounts, but I don't believe that very many people have more than one account... or am I being naive?

Judy B. said...

While I was review ideas during the contest, I thought the ideas for roof top wind turbines were not really feasible. Now, after searching the energy category for ideas that I might be able to actually do, to bring my electric bill down, i found
"Rooftop wind turbines for home use"
Submitted by Pamela B. in Wisconsin
If you think this is a good idea, could you tag it?
The "stirling engine" idea was also new to me..
Another one on that idea is "EXTRA ENERGY FROM FURNACE"
Submitted by Jon J. in Kansas, now at the bottom of the best ideas list.
If nothing else, the SSB contest has opened my eyes to some great ideas from brother/sister Americans.

Richard Yarnell said...

Here's grumpy old Richard again:

Swift requires 30mph winds for at least 30% of the time to reach even the modest claims they make for it.

Now there are some places where you can find sustained winds like that, but they are few and far between.

Wind is nice, but it has to blow at a certain speed.

Stirling engine changes heat to mechanical energy with some substantial losses. You don't get anything for nothing. In some applications, there may be a good reason to convert heat to a form of energy that can do work. In other words, you don't get more energy out of a gallon of fuel oil by making the conversion. In the stack, you might be able to capture waste heat, but it wouldn't be a lot. I didn't look to see what modern efficiencies for a Stirling engine are. It might cost more to build and maintain the engine than the device could recover. It might even be probable.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Hi Christopher,
It was really nice to hear back from you -- you made my day. I'm happy to see that your idea for an election channel and web site has made it to #4 on the list (as of 8:00 pm Eastern Daylight Time on April 5th). What I don't get is that your same idea, but renamed, is at #33. Anyway, I really hope that someone is able to create something like that soon, because we definitely need it.

Does any of you know how we might be able to start a something like that -- at least the web site part of it? Even if the candidates did still have the other usual settings available for campaigning, at least an unbiased site like that would provide voters with an alternative source of information about them.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

I've been thinking a lot about the immigration reform controversy. It is something that will affect me in a major way. I'm wondering what all of you think about that subject, since you are a pretty good representation of middle America.

I don't know how much you guys are affected by or even come into contact with undocumented immigrants. Here in Central Massachusetts, we may have more immigrants in our work force than U.S. citizens -- both documented and undocumented -- from Central and South America, Ghana and scattered other African countries, and Eastern Europe. Most of our workers from Southeast Asia have long since become U.S. citizens. I've worked among them for years now, so I know that they work very hard and are good, decent people, so I don't think they should be labeled as felons. At the same time, I worry that if President Bush's idea for a guest worker program were to be implemented, I would be impacted directly and immediately since many of them do warehouse work like I do.

I'm just so ambivalent about the whole thing -- I don't know how to feel.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Christina you do need to be concerned for the simple fact that more people competing for fewer jobs drives wages down. The big bogie man of open borders and terrorism is more hype then real and diverts from the real issue of immigration itself. As a nation we should have as much control over our borders and immigration as possible.

I saw a discussion of this on TV and loved one women's response to the problem. She said these are largely hard working honest people just like us who only want to make a better life for themselves and their children. We do them an injustice in a way we we label the people as the problem. The problem she said is a government problem and a problem between governments and that is the proper place to direct our anger, frustration and concern about unchecked illegal immigration.

Hawaii is not immune to this. We have many illegal immigrants from all over Polynesia, the Phillipines and in the last 4 to 5 years many more from Mexico as they follow the California refugees here to mow their lawns.

Cheryl V said...

The immigrants (legal & not) are just doing their best to make a living. The problem is a combination of poor conditions in their home country, and employers in our country that will take advantage of them. They will keep coming as long as employers can get away with it.

People in favor of the guest worker program say that we need the illegal immigrants because if we paid them a living wage, our food would cost too much. Then they say that if we could make them legal, the workers could demand better pay. They really need to pick one argument or the other.

As for me personally, I have been seriously impacted by H1B visas & outsourcing. The H1B visas keep our wages down, and the outsourcing is about to make software engineering work in the US a thing of the past.

Marilynn M said...

Personally I think they should issue a worker card to them a special temporary Social Security card with the provision they don't break the law, use welfare services of any kind learn to speak English. After say five years of being a productive member of society they should be able to apply for citizenship. Those that break the law, use social services, and don't want to be an American should be gathered up and sent home. After this time the borders should be patrolled and any that slip through should be jailed before being deported. Employers that hire people without the proper credentials should be fined and jailed. Children should be required to have a year of English before entering school.

Marilynn M said...

Tom Delay through the goodness of his heart has said he will resign to save Texas from having the likes of Barbara Streisand and Michael Moore visit to campaign. I knew he was a great person under all that dishonesty and corruption.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Debbie, at 10:15 pm 04-06-06 Hawaiian time, Restore the Fairness Doctrine was #1 on the list. I sure wish I could be a fly in their computer program to see how this thing is working. The review system is no longer working and the recently tagged list seems so static compared to the Slice Above list.

Did any of you get an e-mail from Terrance saying that you would be featured on the home page if you did the most tags in one day? I am still just lurking and not voting or tagging.

Marilynn it is nice to hear from you. You have been so quiet of late. Too bad about Tom Delay, he did so much good for the Great State of Texas.

Judy B. said...

I realize that illegals impact different parts of the country differently.
I know illegal who have paid thousands of dollars to coyotes, only to be caught and sent back.My own personal interface with the Latinos is that they come up here for seasonal work, provide our growers with a much needed supply of labor at particular times of the year, save their money (or send it home) and go home to family and friends whenever possible.
This particular segment of the illegals should be allowed to buy a work permit for up to six months. this would stop the coyotes exploiting them, give them a semblance of legality so they wouldn't have so much to fear, give us some money to pay for their service needs (health care) while thay are here, and give us a record of who they are and where they are.
Then, those who don't qualify for work permits (the drug runners, etc.) could be hunted down and dealt with.

deb said...

Immigration is just the latest "issue" to get the public's interest off of the reality of our government. Yes, it seriously affects the middle class. What is the *real* answer? Hold the people who are hiring illegals responsible. Make them pay fair and equitable wages with benefits. Pugs (republicans) aren't going to do this, so the immigration issue must wait until we have dems in office and even then we *must* stay on top of them to make them do the right thing.

Who wouldn't want cheap labor? It still doesn't make cheap labor right and cheap labor isn't healthy for the country. It is just a short term benefit for the wealthy.

Restore the Fairness Doctrine is still at number #1 as of 4/9. Thanks y'all ~~me blowing kisss to all~~

Judy, you must have a fan club...most of the ideas at the top are yours...good ideas, btw.

Well...Grumpy Old Richard;)) Grumpy or not you have the brain to design an alternative/renewable energy plan for this country. I only *wish* I had the knowledge of how things work, along with the ability to see the path that different scenerios would lead, that you have. There have been only a few of you in history, and very few are left. (My godson is a chemical engineer and I am more capable of repairing something than he is...i.e. college just can't teach what you know.)

Richard, if you ever wrote a plan for the nation for alternative/renewable energy I would definately spend my time making sure that our elected officials read and understood the content of it, and worked toward creating legislation to put the plan into place.

Cheryl V said...

Anyone who works for a living should be concerned about unlimited immigration. The illegal immigrants are essentially a slave labor force. They have driven down wages to below a living wage. The unemployment rate of low skilled workers is outrageous, and the rest of us get to subsidize the cheapskate employers by paying for more social services.

Skilled workers are also in trouble. H1B visas are being used to hold down wages in what used to be good paying jobs.

That's the problem with this administration, they attack us from so many sides, we get dizzy just trying to keep up with the issues, let alone try to do anything about them.

We need to enforce employment laws against illegal hiring practices, underpayment, and unsafe conditions.

If we took a small part of the money we spend blowing up Iraq, and used it to help the Mexican democracy and economy, we would vastly improve our own security.

christin m p in massachusetts said...
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christin m p in massachusetts said...
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dan said...

I've been following the posts on this thread regarding the imigration reform issue and you all make excellent points. I hope the final bill will balance those issues with some empathy for the immigrants.

David Sirota wrote a column in Sundays San Francisco Chronicle that looks at an underlying cause of the problem.

NAFTA and Imigration

Richard Yarnell said...

A local correspondent, to solve the illegal alien problem, suggests that we offer statehood to Mexico. He points out that, among other things,
building a fence on our new southern border would be much cheaper, it wouldn't take a passport to get
into Mexico, we'd have a much longer domestic growing season, we'd also have a renewed domestic oil supply (at least for a few years) and those
funky retro Chrysler cars would be produced in this country.

To which another correspondent replied:

Another modest proposal: How about annexation? There was a growing movement in the US at the end of the Mexican War (AKA: The US invasion of
Mexico) to annex all of that country. And President Polk reluctantly--as he confided to
his diary--refused to accede to it. But now that our glorious nation
is the only superpower on the planet, we might hold out for higher stakes: invasion and subjugation of any Latin American countries that dare defy imposition of the FTAA. Would we offer them statehood? Of course not. Territorial status?
Hmmmm. Maybe they could be incorporated into the US as reservations to be "developed" by US corporations. Just an idea to ponder while we get ready to take out Iran.

To which I then responded:

Annexation might prove to be a distraction from the administration's
reported goal to nuke the Iranian Nuke Project. On the other hand,
if annexation proved distasteful to the Mexicans to our south, we
would be at a distinct disadvantage: 1) there is an appreciable
number of English speaking Mexicans who have access to just about
every level of our government; 2) we don't have similar human assets
on the ground in Mexico; 3) as we've seen in Iraq, a large area is
tough to police once it's been "subdued" and in the case of Mexico, it would not be to our advantage to "waste" it.

If we offered statehood and they refused, then we'd have a prima facia case that Mr. Fox and his people are intent on taking advantage of us and we could, shut down the border, trade, tourism, and really make them suffer.

I know this is a serious issue. Any solution is going to be some kind of compromise and none of them will be satisfactory to everyone. But as I've said before, it's a global economy now and we're going to have to learn to cope with that. One of the things this mostly liberal Democrat believes is that we aren't in the economic driver's seat anymore. Our best hope is to embrace global trade, revitalize our once impressive labor movement and send them to organize our new competition. It will take some time and it may get uncomfortable while wages, costs of living, and other factors equalize.

In the end, if you take a look at Earth photographed from space, you'll be compelled to agree that nationalism is obsolete.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

The article on NAFTA and Immigration, leaves me feeling both sad and enraged.

This means reforming our trade policy to include serious wage, workplace and human-rights provisions so that cross-border commerce actually improves the lives of Mexican workers to the point where they no longer feel the dire economic need to break our immigration laws.

Who has it in their power to enact laws that can make this happen? What, if anything, can we do to help turn the national focus from immigration reform (the band-aid) to trade policy reform (the cure)?

christin m p in massachusetts said...

I don't know much about Mexican President Vicente Fox. How is he as a leader? Does he have his people's best interest at heart -- or is he only in office to serve his own purposes?

Would we offer them statehood? Of course not. Territorial status?

You gave a possible negative result in offering Mexico statehood. Is there a possible positive outcome?

dan said...

Christin, I think your right to be frustrated with NAFTA. While I agree with Richard that we need to embrace free trade, we could have put in provisions that would have gradually raised standards for wages and working conditions. Instead we just gave the green light to unrestrained Capitalism which has always abused workers. I wish I knew the best solution.

Richard Yarnell said...

I think the Wikipedia article on Fox is fair. He's spent a good deal of his time as President without a majority in the legislature.

I can think of several positive aspects of a unified North America. I don't think it will happen any time soon. Nor did Clinton (whom Fox identifies with, BTW. Hence NAFTA.

Judy B. said...

Wow... I haven't been here for a while,,, Much to catch up on... As there is much to catch up on outdoors here. Lots of wind has blown down much timber on our place. Lots of rain has made it too hard to work the land yet. The cold has kept me busy trying to keep tender plants safe, and yesterday a hail storm knocked down some blooming flowers..
So now is good time to catch up here..
I am wondering if a solution to the immigration problem might be to form a North American Union with Canada and Mexico to better compete on the world market. Would be more practicable than offering "territorial status" "annexation" or statehood.
Working with the context that we have much in common, we might be better served trying to join our neighbors in bettering the economy of all, with environmental concerns taking into account, as well as labor laws.

Judy B. said...

Richard, I was "tagging" yesterday when one of your ideas came up on my screen.. was I surprised because you had said earlier that you had withdrawn all your ideas from the contest...
Ir was one abour solar energy on rooftops...
Anyway I voted for it and told my daughters to vote for it too but they couldn't get it to come up on their computers. Funny how this thing works.

Judy B. said...

Christina... also while tagging yesterday an idea came up: "Credit card mania" submitted by a Tina M. B. in Massachusetts... "too much of a coincidence" so I have to believe it is you... Good idea.. so I voted for it and had my daughters vote for it too...
This idea combined with mine "consumer credit and debt" (#5 this morning) are the making of some new laws.

Richard Yarnell said...

Not to be confused with the New Zealand, Australia Free Trade Agreement.


christin m p in massachusetts said...

Since it seemed like forever since you had last posted at this blog, I was beginning to worry that something had happened to you. I'm glad to know you're okay.

That idea isn't mine, but thanks for being supportive. I went in and took a look at it and clicked on "yes" and added a few tags. Is the tag "reform" meant mostly for government reform? Or can it apply to the reform of any system or practice? I also added "finance" and "economics" to it.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

"Consumer credit and debt" is still #5 (as of 1:20am EDT on 4/17). I voted for it and added the same tags that I put on credit card mania.

I did some tagging in the first few days, but not much since. I should get back to voting and do my part. Speaking of which, does anyone know what happened to Brian (aka anonymous in Massachusetts and Skids)?

deb said...

Christin and all...I e-mailed Brian aka skids to ask if he cared if I posted his e-mail on these threads. His e-mail is and thought that you would be interested in his reply...

do you care if I put your e-mail on the threads

NP go ahead.

> Oh, and just are you? Are you working at some
terrific job worthy of your expertise? deb

No, I have interviewed for a job that will surely use my expertise, but
is way below my normal "pay grade." Hopefully I'll know something in a
or two. Thanks for asking!

I know I have to get around to scoring the ballots, I just keep putting
off since I have to go salvage some of the ones where people didn't get
security "captcha" part right which might take a couple hours. That
the results are considerably less meaningful with so few ballots cast.
Without a blog at the SSB site to rabble-rouse it's hard to drive
to the site. But hey, one silver lining if you can call it that is
is an active lawsuit.


Judy B. said...

I just went over to SSB to tag... discovered that John G. is one of the top taggers...
And guess what the random idea that came up to tag was named...
"John A. in New Mexico for president" you believe that???
He has his own fan club.

Debie ...speaking of fan clubs... you suggested earlier that I might have one because of the number of ideas that I have in the top... I have my 2 daughters tagging and voting and am sure they have helped my cause... at least getting them nominated.. but think some of you must have helped out too...

Christin .. thanks for the vote.. It went to the number 1 spot for awhile, but has slipped again...

I found one idea that I really liked and had my girls vote for, titled "One subject per law"...
Once it made it to the list it took off and has been flying right at the top...It is an idea that i think we can all get behind...

christin m p in massachusetts said...

One Subject Per Law was one of my favorites too. It reminded me of back when we were all commenting on SSB's blog, how Debbie explained to me about the way contingency riders on a bill can steer some congressmen into voting against it even if they are actually in favor of it. Being that I knew so little about political processes, I was really thrown to learn for the first time that they make the bills so convoluted in order to serve their own ends. It just flies in the face of decency.

One Subject Per Law is a "common sense idea" if ever there was one.

John G. said...

"I just went over to SSB to tag... discovered that John G. is one of the top taggers..."

Of his own IDEAS. 3 to be exact...
if that made me a top tagger they will be there a while.

Deb, do you mind if I e-mail you?
I picked up your e-mail from another thread...oh yeah, I am no relation to John A. if anyone is wondering, I do however find him somewhat entertaining though. I personally have never been very political, he's a master. Heh JUDY...:-) miss me?

deb said...

JG...I'd love to hear from you...mail away:))

Christin, that is really a compliment that I was able to share some information that you didn't know. I liked the SSB threads in that there was such an exciting conversation going on all of the time, but I feel as if each of you in our spin off group is now a close friend. If y'all ever want to try to meet, then count me in.

Marilynn M said...

I'm just checking in. I haven't forgotten this. My 98 year old Mother-in-law had a heart attack, fell and broke her hip. Things will be back to normal someday.

dan said...

Marilynn, I hope your Mother-in-law has a complete recovery and that you and Al are able to cope with the added stress. Your internet friends care about your well being so check in when you can.

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