Sunday, June 18, 2006

ADMIN 2.0

New administration post.

Do y'all want an "off-topic" thread? Moot point?

145 comments:

deb said...

To all of my friends at breadcrusts.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

I'm not very good at broaching sensitive subjects, so I hope this isn't somehow inappropriate. I think Christopher's feeling very down today, and may be in need of some bolstering. You'll understand what I mean if you read his post from today (June 20th).

christin m p in massachusetts said...

For anyone here who doesn't know it already, his blog is at tropicalembellishments.blogspot.com and his e-mail address and other contact information can be found at his Kihei Plant Productions link.

dan said...

Christin, its never inappropriate to try to help a friend who's feeling very down.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Mercy, I am sorry to have caused you to feel alarmed. I am perfectly fine. That post is about things recently past. Yes it was a bit much to get through, but it is over. Lessons learned and time to move forward. Writing about these things helps me to release it and not let it linger and cause me more grief.

Your reaction is very sweet and caring. I appreciate that. It just shows even more the power that words have.

I have a lot of work to catch up on from being gone for two weeks and a new photo editor program to learn, but in a week or so I will start posting more of the wonderful pictures I took while I was in Florida and North Carolina.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

I'm so glad you're okay Christopher:)) You can disregard that voice mail message I left, or you can still call if you'd like to. And I'd better leave Ellen a follow-up message to let her know you're all right, because I left her one (not for posting, of course) asking her to contact you too.

It's good to have you back at this blog. I've been thinking that maybe you converted to Bush Republicanism.

Judy B. said...

Deb... the "friends" link is nice... I"m glad I have found the friends on this blog.

dan said...

Christopher, I hope you enjoyed your vacation and I'm looking forward to seeing your photos along with your always interesting commentary.

Marilynn M said...

Sorry I have been gone. Grandma died and we had to take care of that. I'm so far behind on everything I'll never catch up.

It's miserably hot here, and we have water restrictions. Al just got the new lawn in and going good. I doubt that one watering a week will keep it going. Remember that there is no global warming or weather changes. Has anyone seen Gore's movie? I haven't yet. Might not want to see what is happening.

Richard Yarnell said...

I saw it opening day here in Portland where, if you hadn't bought your ticket in advance you didn't get in.

It is superbly well done. I was supposed to see the "power point" lecture last year but the sponsor oversold the house and I couldn't get in. The movie is based on that leacture with additional material.

The additional material, while legitimately in the film, is what the GOP is using to belittle the effort. Gore may or may not have further political ambitions, but the context material lets them claim the film is his first campaign effort.

Given that the lecture has been evolving over 20 years or more, it's a specious claim.

But you should not avoid the film on any account.

ry

Judy B. said...

I saw the power-point presentation on LINK TV a couple of months ago... It is something you do NOT want to miss...It will take a while to get to our local movie theatres, but will go see what is differernt...

Judy B. said...

Marilyn, it is good to hear from you again...Seems like you have had a lot to deal with recently...
I know the feeling...catching up is hard to do...

dan said...

Marilynn, I hope your family difficulties are behind you now. Maybe a couple rainstorms will save your new lawn.

I saw "An Inconvenient Truth" the first weekend it played in our community. I agree with Richard, you really shouldn't miss this film. The content is very compelling and Al Gore's sincerity is obvious. It's important that it has enough success that all theatres decide to show it.

dan said...

Marilynn, I hope your family difficulties are behind you now. Maybe a couple rainstorms will save your new lawn.

I saw "An Inconvenient Truth" the first weekend it played in our community. I agree with Richard, you really shouldn't miss this film. The content is very compelling and Al Gore's sincerity is obvious. It's important that it has enough success that all theatres decide to show it.

Cheryl V said...

I would love to see Gore's movie, but I will probably have to wait for the DVD. I don't expect it to ever play within a hundred miles of my house.

As if we need more proof of global warning, insurance companies are dropping customers in New York city because they are in the path of a "possible hurricane".

deb said...

Hi everyone. My niece was married this weekend in Al. and I've been visiting family and friends. My daughters were in the ceremony. It was a twilight wedding in a courtyard, complete with a fountain that had candles floating in it, very beautiful wedding and reception.

Marilynn, so good to hear from you. Judy, I hope that you and your hubby are doing better. Cheryl, it is good to see you, too. You seem to find some of the most interesting info. I would have not thought that NYC needed hurricane ins. because the storms usually decline in strength the further north that they go.

I had posted at SSB an idea for installing devices that would bring the cooler water from the bottom of the Gulf to the surface. This would (hopefully) help 2 problems. The first problem would be to cool the surface to reduce the intensity of hurricanes. The second would be to aereate the dead zone that develops in the gulf every summer due to fertilizers encouraging growth of organisms that depleat the oxygen, mainly from the Miss. River. Dead Zone

Would it be possible to cool off the Gulf Waters? I'm thinking that the Gulf is very large and anything that we could make might just be a drop in the bucket.

JG had responded at SSB about former experiments to change hurricanes.

Speaking of/to JG...I am of the same mindset as Christan. I would have never believed that you were past your mid twenties. I will completely accept that your enthusiasm for life encouraged my belief in your youth...however there is another possibility...has one of your daughters been posting under your name?

A bit of info about civilization for JG,family and anyone else who is interested... Ancient Shells May Be World's Oldest Bead Jewelry

dan said...

Hi Debbie, welcome back. I'm glad that you had such a good time at your niece's wedding.

I must not have seen your SSB idea about cooling the surface of the Gulf. I also was unaware of how large the dead zone there is. If your idea could help solve both problems, it would be very valuable.

deb said...

My cooling the Gulf waters wasn't an officially posted idea. It came later while we were blogging and waiting on those "unrivaled" official results. The blog had started a conversation about hurricanes and I had suggested "fountains" in the Gulf to bring the cooler water up from the bottom, or possibly pumping air down which would aereate the water and stir it up from the bottom.

dan said...

Debbie, I'd love to put you in a room full of scientists and engineers. You'd have them looking at problems in the broadest possible way.

Cheryl said...

The National Hurricane Center has a faq at http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/tcfaqHED.html

They explain several of the most common ideas to handle hurricanes. I'm no fan of hurricanes, but they are part of the environment. Getting rid of them might be worse than having them. We need to find better ways to live with them. Or maybe we could implement the first dozen or so solutions that we already know.

deb said...

Cheryl, JG was thinking along the same lines at SSB...that trying to control the storms caused other problems. Good link, thanks.

JG, Another ‘Stonehenge’ discovered in Amazon. I looked for the Peru info: "Last month, archaeologists working on a hillside north of Lima, Peru, announced the discovery of the oldest astronomical observatory in the Western Hemisphere — giant stone carvings, apparently 4,200 years old, that align with sunrise and sunset on Dec. 21." and am not having any luck.

Judy B. said...

I am currently reading a novel that is full of scientific, references, religion and myth that seems to be trying to tie climate change (control), the earth's (and human"s) past to the pyramids, Atlantis, prophecy, 2012 etc... Thought Deb and John would like it... but maybe the rest of you too...

Judy B. said...

Whoops... forgot the mame of the book... It is "Decipher", and the other major element is losrt languages and uncoding the past...
The book tries to do a little to much, but it isentertqining and quite about of food for thought...
A lot of light wave theory too...

Cheryl V said...

Deb,
Huricanes have their place, but if you come up with a way to get rid of fire ants, I'm all for it. Maybe global warming is an evil plot by the fire ants to increase their territory.

Richard Yarnell said...

We brought them on ourselves and the do have a place:

In some cases, imported fire ants are considered to be beneficial because they prey upon other arthropod pests. In urban areas, fire ants prey on flea larvae, chinch bugs, cockroach eggs, ticks and other pests.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-06-11-fire-ants_x.htm

Cheryl V said...

Lyme disease is almost unknown where fire ants live, but even those evil beasts can't clean out the roaches. All the same I can't believe anyone who has lived with them wouldn't be delighted to see them gone.

The cursed things both bite and sting. They also talk. They wait till the leaders are at least up to your knee, and then they all sting at the same time.

They've wiped out most of the native ants, and cause serious damage to crops & livestock. It's a constant battle to keep them out of the garden. For them, I go chemical because nothing else works.

deb said...

Cheryl, those ants came ashore in ports in Mobile and Biloxi, so the Gulf Coast has them the worst. I noticed that they all bite at once...OUCH!

Thanks Judy, I believe that I will enjoy reading Decipher.

dan said...

FYI: (Note: Ned Lamont will be debating Joe Lieberman today, July 6, at 7pm ET/4pm PT. It will be broadcast on C-SPAN and I'll be covering the event live at firedoglake.com.)*

*Jane Hamsher a blogger at firedoglake

Cheryl said...

I finally got around to making a blog page. I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do with it, but I guess I'll find out.

http://www.hens-teeth.blogspot.com/

dan said...

I'm glad your started a blog Cheryl. You have a keen eye for spotting hypocracy and injustice and your commentary is always interesting. I'll make sure to check out Hen's Teeth from time to time.

Cheryl said...

Thank you Dan. It's always nice to get a compliment.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

I'm so happy. I just got off the phone a few minutes ago with Alison Webber -- the wildlife rehabilitation specialist who has been taking care of my robin (she doesn't know I named him). She said he's doing very well -- he gets along well with the other birds and he's self-feeding now. She said he has molted the two displaced feathers already, but I must have misheard her back three weeks ago when she told me how long it takes for the new ones to grow in. I thought he was going to be ready to be released into the wild by this weekend, but she said it's going to be around another three to four weeks before the new feathers grow in and then he'll be ready to fly.

Before I spoke with her, I was concerned that maybe something I fed him or the way I fed him might have contributed toward ill-health in him, since I didn't really know what I was doing when I had him, and I just had to "wing it" -- so to speak.

Anyway, I'm so relieved to know that he's okay.

Cheryl said...

Glad to hear he's doing well.

Cheryl said...

Some crazy guy found my blog. If you're in the mood for entertainment, check it out.

dan said...

Cheryl, congratulations on the successful launch of "hens teeth". Apparently some "crazy guy" drank all the champaign intended to christen your site, but he had the poor judgement to target Debbie with his inane rant. She of course can handle any heckler with ease and you and Christopher were great allies in her corner. All in all, it made for a very interesting 1st page for your new blog page.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

He's back.

dan said...

Christopher/Debbie/Cheryl, I'm impressed the way you responded to daytripper. I was angry at his mean-spirited attack on people I hold in high regard and wanted to respond myself but I know from past experience that I'm not very good at dealing with his type. Thanks for the lesson.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

This is going to seem like an extremely out-of-the-blue comment, but it's something I've often wondered about...

Over the past couple of days, I've been thinking a lot about the subject of religious indoctrination. I remember that when I was a child in Catholic school, the nuns had us so convinced that Nixon and Wallace were evil and Humphrey was saintly, that we thought those beliefs originated within ourselves. We were only in third grade, and there we were (the girls) making up chants about those candidates that we would jump rope to at recess in the school yard.

It turns out they weren't far off the mark, at least when it came to Nixon anyway. But I never did come to know why, at seven years old, I was supposed to revere Hubert Humphrey, and despise Richard Nixon and George Wallace...

Can those of you who were old enough to know more about those candidates, fill me in on pre-Watergate Nixon, and on the character of each of the other two men as well?

Cheryl said...

I don't have any clear memories of the times you are asking about, but your comment does illustrate the difference schools can make.

I attended a Catholic school in the 60's. It was very good academically. It was very progressive with religion. This was pre-John Paul II. We were encouraged to be creative with the school Mass, as long as we kept it relevent. We were also encouraged to do something good, rather than give something up for penance. Politics didn't really come up.

In my kids' school, everyone is assumed to be Republican. They had a mock debate between Bush & Kerry. The Bush kid knew all the talking points. The Kerry kid just stumbled around so he wouldn't sound like a Democrat.

Last year, my daughter told us about a history class where Democrats were refered to as "those people that want to give our money to lazy bums". I sent a letter to the teacher explaining about Jesus and helping the less fortunate, and keeping partisan talking points out of the classroom. Maybe it did some good.

My son is in High School. He's learned to be careful about making comments, although he does enjoy punching holes in the inconsistant talking points of other students.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Cheryl,
Is your kids' school a parochial school, or is it a public or alternative school? The reason I'm asking is because I'm beginning to see a pattern... Since both you and Christopher grew up in the South, and both are Catholic, I'm wondering if a family's religion somehow has more influence on political leanings, than where the person grew up.

On a separate note, I have to say that although for the most part I agree with Democratic party policies, I strongly agree with the Republicans on that one single issue about doling out tax money for subsidies. I think it encourages inflation. When there were fewer government subsidies, costs had to be kept realistic, because all there was to pay for things was earned income.

There is a multi-millionaire (in the hundreds of millions) real estate investor here in Massachusetts, that made all those millions on tax subsidies. He (the reptile) was hatched in Cambridge, inherited some money with which he bought multiple apartment buildings in several cities. He bought them dirt cheap, then made the rents so expensive that the only ones who could afford to live in them were the people who had government subsidies. The rental managers who worked for him even recommended to tenants that they apply for housing subsidies, food stamps, etc. Why??? So that their boss could get even richer on the backs of taxpayers?????

That is the one and only issue on which I disagree with the Democratic party -- and strongly enough that I will never, ever vote for a candidate that wants to increase or even maintain housing subsidies at their present level. Ever.

The vast majority of working people don't want to be relegated to living on government subsidies, and they also don't want to spend nearly every waking minute working (like my sister does, and my brother and his wife do), or to have a second job as an indentured servant (like I do). So when hundreds of thousands of people moved to other states where working people can afford decent housing, a lot of the apartment buildings here emptied out. As a result, that real estate slimeball along with all the others of his ilk started to hemorrage money. So he rapidly unloaded his rental properties on buyers who hadn't studied their market. One of our local news magazines reported that he was lying to prospective buyers telling them that the rental market wasn't going to be slow for long -- that it was expected to pick up soon. Every county in our state has seen record numbers of foreclosures on residential properties -- including rental properties -- during the past two years. Common sense should tell people... If you don't want to lose money, don't buy the BS that a rich man is trying to sell you; instead do what he does.

I don't want to see any more workers being displaced from the housing market, and any more tax money being funneled up to rich landlords. Even if it takes voting against candidates who promote it.

Marilynn M said...

Karen sent this to me. Bush in all his glory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKtEqVVlVZs

Anonymous said...

Interesting links on the Peruvian Stonehenge Deb...
Something to think about. All these ancient civilizations with these massive temples and advanced architecture, yet primitive materials or at least more natural.
What could have motivated these peoples to build such massive structures using human labor when more reasonable less mysterious methods were in practice at the time? Each one of these cultures, atlantians included, was into studying the heavens and applying what they learned to their culture.
Stay with me...
Now our society is concerned with global warming. We have studied ice samples from the artic dating back 600 thousand years to try and distinguish a pattern of glacial and warming periods. Most scientists agree the past 100 years are warming faster than ever recorded in the ice packs, many blame man made causes.
Stay with me...
Our little planet has sooo many variables which make life possible, size and location of moon, planets which share our solar system, tilt of the earth, rotation, even the precise location of our solar system with in our galaxy is a virtual safe zone...for now.
Stay with me...
Each of these past civilizations left seemingly advanced and mysterious tokens pyramids etc.
And then disappeared seemingly mysteriously a lot of times.
The Mayan calendar expires in 2012...
let us imagine for a moment on or about that time our solar system as a whole will enter a location within the galaxy that the basic elements of the universe are different...rotations, planetary tilts, location of planetary satellites, even orbits around the sun change in the smallest of details. Historically this leads to...let's say more asteroids making a direct hit with earth or the moon or any one of the other planets in our system, in effect we are hit with a global catastrophe...it is a cycle which precedes global warming or glacial periods (remember the one which hit in Russia in the early part of the 1900s) the ancients knew this cycle and built pyramids etc. to protect their kings or preserve records of their culture...
Let us imagine for a moment this is a natural process which takes place every few hundred thousand years in effect knocking the earth off its course which is naturally orbiting closer to the sun each year causing it to get hotter. This occasional impact would then become a good thing for the long term survival of the planet, not necessarily the species...
If an asteroid were to get our planet in its crosshairs again, should we try and stop it? Or is it a natural unpleasant necessity such as hurricanes?
Would this kind of choice motivate ancient peoples to do spectacular things such as build humongous monuments with mysterious means?
Where will our solar system be within our galaxy in 2012 and what impact will that have on earth?

John G. in Georgia

Cheryl said...

Christin,
Eric, the kids, and I all attended parochial schools. In New Orleans, very few people choose to attend public schools.

The difference is the change in politics and society between the 60's and now. Democrats and Republicans swapped sides on civil rights.

I have one sister that is a liberal, but the rest of the family is very Republican and very conservative. (Clinton evil, Bush can do no wrong.) My Dad loved talk radio when I was young. He listened to a variety of proto-Rush's. I'm just contrary.

About housing subsidies, as with any program, aren't bad in and of themselves. The problem is how they are used (or abused). They can be used to keep a family off the street. They can also be used to pay off political debts. It sounds like your local reptile had quite a scam going.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Are the public schools underfunded in New Orleans, or is there some other reason why people opt not to send their kids there?

Regarding your and your liberal sister's "contrariness"... Are you able to pinpoint anything that strongly influenced your leanings in a different direction from the rest of the family, or do you think it just comes down to individual personalities?

And about our local reptile... I'm pretty sure you're right about that, because although he sold off all of his residential buildings except the ones that are fully occupied by subsidized tenants, his commercial holdings now include: the social security building in one of our cities; another building which houses the city manager's office in a different city; and several downtown parking garages (where he tripled parking fees immediately after purchase).

I used to live in one of the complexes that he ended up buying. During the first few weeks, he came to the apartment complex nearly every day pretending to be just a manager. I could sense that he wasn't being straight with us, so I kept kind of schmoozing Lieutenant Columbo-style. When I told him that I like to live in a very simple fashion -- sort of like a Franciscan monk does, he smiled and lied through his teeth saying, "Me, too." It turns out he lives in a lavish, multi-million dollar home in the city where he owns the social security building, and he throws huge wasteful parties several times a year -- according to his own former maintenance men, who subsequently found more honest employers.

From what I have witnessed, the obscenely inflated rents which were made possible by the housing subsidies, rendered more people homeless than it took off the streets. The landlords with the subsidized tenants monopolized whole cities, so they were able to set the rents as high as they wished. Before that, it had always been the case that anyone who worked full-time at even the lowest paying jobs, could afford a decent place to live. It is my understanding that this is still the case in many other parts of the U.S. But not here. To have a decent place to live in this state, you must have one of the following: a high-skilled trade, a professional job, a lot of roommates, be an indentured servant, come into a large inheritance or other windfall, or else work nearly every waking minute of your life -- in order to afford it.

When it comes to reasonable housing costs, the red states have it all over the blue states. That is why the red states have seen such a rapid rise in population over the past five years or so, while the blue states have seen a rapid out-migration (of U.S. citizens and documented workers).

deb said...

Research being done that differentiates left-leaning and right-leaning people.

FYI: I have noticed that families usually have representatives of both parties, especially families with large numbers of kids, even when the parents are strongly of a particular affiliation. So people with the same parents that went to the same schools vote differently.

Study linking preschool personality to political orientation draws wide attention

Liberal or Conservative, It’s All in the Genes

This one is pure BS, but it shows how easily the "right" is manipulated.

Moral Politics

And a similar article I ran across:
Bad dreams haunt right-wingers

Marilynn, please tell Karen thanks for the link...great video clip! Tell us about her plans for college...is she already attending?

JG, my daughter (the one in vet school) says that every living organism has a two-fold purpose (1) to survive and (2) to reproduce. This is the same whether the organism is a virus (snippet of DNA) or a person. So my guess would be that if we knew that an asteroid was going to hit the planet we (collectively as humans) would try and stop it. As far as guessing about asteroid strikes (or any planetary change) it's one of those things that I have no control over, whatever will be will be. But, I might be able to influence change in global warming...so I'll keep at it.

I have searched for more information about the stone circles in the America's, but there is really no other information published. What I find particularly interesting is that people separated by oceans were creating similar structures at similar times in history. It makes me wonder about stone age people...the cave man concept just doesn't seem to work, especially if people were traversing the oceans. Just a mystery for me to ponder. I also believe that the human brain hasn't evolved dramatically in the past 5K years, so they were as capable as us...only (most civilizations) without the written word. We know from the Bible that vast amounts of information were memorized and passed down through the generations. What was that knowledge? Did people (maybe the "church") decide within the last 2K years to do away with the information as the science was probably linked to the ancient religions and therefore considered "evil"? Assuming that people then were as smart as us, but the were limited to stone and wood to be used as tools, I can't help but believe that they learned how to work in ways that post metal age generations would not even try to think of.

Christin, I believe that we should limit subsidized housing, because as you have shown the program is easily cheated. But, first we have to regulate business in a way that allows that anyone who works a 40hr. work week makes a living wage. The subsidized housing boils down to you and I subsidizing Wal-Mart (et.al.)workers so that Wal-Mart doesn't have to. I would research or even ask a candidate for his/her long term goal as to the subsidized housing issue before choosing not to vote for them. A candidate may see the issue as the only solution at this time but be for regulating business and increasing wages to eliminate need for the subsidies in the future.

On another note: If enough people leave MA the cost of renting/buying will decrease due to competition.

Judy B. said...

Of, pyramids and such.. I believe that we do not give the ancients enough credit for their abilities to build high tech...

We use our own limited knowledge and make "scientific" speculations which become theory which becomes "the word" about past civilizations...

By using our limited imaginations, we have not given the ancients credit for their building methods,... which may be so far superior to our own, that we are as of now, unable to conceive any other solution than the brute force of thousands of laborers. what if there were other options...

My own limited scientific knowledge has not kept me from experiencing life from other unique perspectives...

I believe that JG's light beam technology is on the right track...but "the word" is the key...

dan said...

Marilynn, please thank Karen for passing along the GWB words video...very entertaining.

Anonymous said...

"Whatever will be will be."
As your daughter stated, survival and reproduction would cause us to stop the (hypothetical) meteor.
Yet if we knew the options, we could affect the outcome of both scenarios to insure the survival of the species as well as the planet. Only if we knew...
As a common sense activist (your awesome) that statement just does not fit you...
p.s. that was a compliment.


". But, I might be able to influence change in global warming...so I'll keep at it."

The tsunami last December disrupted the oceanographic conveyor belt, which is affecting our weather today. Global warming is not entirely a man made issue. With this in mind...
Please keep at it.

Judy B. Thank-You

I will respond to the rest of your (very interesting) comments soon when I have more time.

John G in Georgia

Richard Yarnell said...

Regarding pyramids, Egyptian ones in particular:

Remember that the pyramid is one of the most stable geometries;

Remember that most of the work in assembling a pyramid is done at the base where the area (and volume) is the greatest;

And realize that the pyramid lends itself to building inclines around it as it's height increases.

In Egypt, remember that the folks who commanded these buildings to be constructed were Gods. What they said had the power of both the state and the religion of Egypt.

Also recall that Egypt was an agrarian society that had a relatively short growing season that was controlled by the annual river floods. It wasn't too disruptive to enlist off season farm workers to do the heavy lifting.

And finally, remember that we know the pyramids took decades to build.

This is not to say that there wasn't a good deal of skill and ingenuity involved.

I've seen demonstrations of putting an obelisk on its feet (foot). Haul it up an incline and lay it on a box of sand. Let the sand out the bottom and the obelisk rights itself, following the sand as it runs out the bottom.

I'm just about to move a very large commercial freezer from Susan's old house to our place. It checks in at about 1000 pounds. When we first bought it, we (just the two of us) loaded it into her pickup using levers and comealongs and a bit of gravity. It took us some time, but it wasn't all that hard. At the other end, the biggest deal was getting it out of the truck without loosing control. There was 1" of clearance under the roll up garage door. The usual dollies and hand trucks wouldn't work. Calling ourselves Egyptions (we really did) we got found a piece of half inch pipe and rolled the monster into the garage and the position it's occupied until last week when we again, using a piece of pipe, rolled it back to the door. My point: simple tools, enough muscle, and enough time really can work wonders.]

Carving the stone is mostly patience. Wedges and hammers can fracture large stones precisely and even stone age craftsmen did wonders using round stones as hammers. I saw a demonstration of stone shaping using nothing but hand-held round rocks. The resulting planes were incredibly accurate.

Now, if you're a clever god, you contrive to assigne religious significance to your easily constructed and stable shape. Then you enlist your subjects to honor their god and their religion by building a sacred shape. Piece of cake!

deb said...

Thanks for the compliment JG. I like it...common sense activist.

I hold the Serenity Prayer close to me always:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Being that I am me, I have a couple of variations of the Serenity Prayer.

And the wisdom to know when to do it.

And someone to make me do it.

Judy B. said...

Richard, I too understand the principles building as we now know them.... Anyone who watches the Discovery Channel has seen demonstrations and "proof" of how the Eqyptians were able to move the pieces of the pryamids into place. That doesn't mean that that is the way it was done... only a possibility...

Beyond Egypt, the world is circled with pyramids, many still being discovered, and their terrain would not make it so easy to build in the manner you stated for egypt..

Beyond the physical constraints of building the pyramids, the engineering was spectacular, particularly how they are situated in an organized manner (around the globe), in allignment with the stars, and the seasons...

I think those old guys and gals had figured our much we have yet to uncover...

of leverage,

Judy B. said...

My dad was an engineer and a master of many trades. I learned at an early age the importance of leverage, gravity and the wheel... My husband and I have wheels on everything, it seems, and have used the pipe system many times when moving heavy objects.

My dad also taught me to think outside the box, and many times in his professional carreer he was able to come up with solutions because he wasn't boxed into one theory... And so I just keep on thinking of new ways and new possibilituies...

What broke open the flood gates of "should" "impossible" "this is the way it is done" (especially in business), and "conformity", was my own personal experience with fire...

Anonymous said...

"Piece of cake!"

Well phooey, there went my theory on how the pyramids were built top down...

You do however present some very interesting and valuable techniques to an old problem Richard, if you had lived in the time of the pharaohs you defenitly would have caused many to question their magic...

Interesting, I say that serenity prayer many times every day deb (lbt?)...Love Christopher’s variation.

I believe I would have liked your dad Judy...

"Beyond Egypt, the world is circled with pyramids, many still being discovered"

The Indian mounds in central Ga. were used as lookouts and shelter...?


John G. in Georgia

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

One thing we may not have given the ancients enough credit for is travel, particularly sea faring.
The idea that man spread out of Africa across the globe and then got stuck is a little odd don't you think.

One Atlantis location possibility is Santorini based on a culture from Crete where they are finding the ruins of the Macedonian civilization from 1500BC that was wiped out by the explosian of the volcanic island of Santorini. This prosperous and architechturally advanced island culture was based on trade and sea travel of the Mediterranian.

What would have stopped them from crossing the Atlantic and spreading pyramids to America?

Richard Yarnell said...

Judy B:

Didn't mean to sound so absolutist: but if it can be done with tools known to exist at the time, it's likely it was done, one way or another. I have reservations about some of the "drilling" done without benefit of hard metal tools.

The stability of the pyramid, to me, suggests that it should be common around the world. It's not very practical for much beyond ceremonial structures because a) it takes a lot of material, and b) it is hard to have large, habitable volumes inside.

In SA, aren't most of the "pyramids" flat topped structures?

I think the demonstration of stone carving that I saw was on PBS, probably National Geographic. The premis was that very accurate surfaces and fitting could not be accomplished with stone tools. It turned out that flat surfaces could be obtained that rivaled modern milling techniques. Having carved a large granite boulder so it would fit a fountain I built as a kid, I found it hard to believe. But these guys used nothing but round rocks as hammers and a playing card wouldn't slip through the joints.

ry

Anonymous said...

"What would have stopped them from crossing the Atlantic and spreading pyramids to America?"

A rival civilization? or perhaps the atlantic was not there yet?

Unless the pyramids were more than mere monuments...The giza pyramid had a boat buried next to it.
I had not given much thought to the seasonal flooding of the river as Richard stated, perhaps they used some sort of bouyancy to construct...this could explain the unique corner stones as well as the precise holes...

What would have prevented them from space travel?

John G. in Georgia

Judy B. said...

Pyramids... I love this topic...
I have several friends who have traveled much further afield than I have... (at least in this dimension)...

those who have had the opportunity to visit the pyramids in Egypt, and actually spend the night inside... have come back transformed.. you might say enLIGHTened...

I do not know all the answers, but as my dad used to tell me "Question everything"... that made me somewhat of a sceptic, and to this day I play at being the devil's advocate,...questioning everything... So, sorry Richard, if I sounded a little righteous in my "questioning"...

I believe that science/technology has found some probable scenerios to the building of the pyramids...
And i still question that that is all there is to it...

Like John G.., i see other possibilities... not just with the pyramids, but with other ancient findings; some of the mystery high in the Andes have baffled scientists for years.. with the advent of space travel, and taking pictures from space thay have identified what appears to be a HUGE landing strip.. makes me think JG is on to something when he suggest alien from another place...
I am not sure we will ever find the answers, but it is fun to speculate...

deb said...

JG,

The Atlantic began 180 million years ago...land animals were reptiles (really big ones, lol) also birds were just starting to evolve.

Pangaea

Evolution of life on earth can be traced through DNA. Did you know that humans have 98.5% of all of the same genes that chimpanzees do?

Anyway, the DNA shows that we evolved from lower life forms. If we had extraterrestrial ancestors our DNA wouldn't be the same as other animals...unless the extra terrestrials brought the first microbes.

So my question is: We are the first generation in all of human history to have the technology to go into space, there are no artifacts of humans having the ability to make a spacecraft or the ability to thrust anything outside of our gravitational field...so what would leave you to believe that the builders of the pyramids had the capacity for space travel? Other than by a means similar to what Judy was talking about being in 2 places at once, where the physical body is still here on earth? Which also might be called ESP.

I do have a theory about ESP, and maybe even God...
Animals rely on instinct, but in some instances instinct doesn't account for their behavior. For example: a pack of wolves will spread out of sight from each other, circle a prey, and select a spot on the circle about equidistant from each other and then without a sound move in to trap their dinner. How is this happening? They can't say..."Hey Hairy, you go 1/3 of the way and I'll go to the 2/3 mark".

Do lower life forms have ESP...at energy levels where they can communicate with their pack or think "rabbit" and sense one a couple of miles away? Did we loose this when we learned to talk? Do some people still have glimpses of it...you, Judy and my Granny?

The God part...or perhaps it is what Judy is calling "the word"(let me know Judy): I believe that if I pray, well actually it isn't prayer so much as "listening" that I receive guidance when I ask, and energy when I allow myself to be open to recieving that energy. It may well be a remnant of what allowed lower life forms to survive on this planet. To tap into the energy that sustains the universe, i.e., God.

deb said...

Judy, I hadn't refreshed for a while and didn't see your post before I posted.

It is fun to speculate, and I am very inclined to believe that modern humans don't know it all, and that knowledge has been lost...particularly in stone working and in medicine. I do want sound factual proof, so I speculate and then try for the science that has to exist.

Richard, I believe what you said about being able to carve stones with other stones with precision, but the walls and structures of the........

OK, forget that...I found something very interesting while I was searching for the civilization that carved the tight fitting stones in Equador...

Time travelers or aliens?

ICA Stones of Peru

Have any of you ever heard of this? If this article has any resemblence of the truth, then...well...

Judy B. said...

Deb... your "..stones of Puru" link is great... has much information that i am familiar with from past studies, but had kind of forgotten about...

"Do lower life forms have ESP...at energy levels where they can communicate with their pack .."

If they are able to communicate without words, using ESP or whatever, what makes you think they are lower life forms???

I gave a very brief explanation of "the word" in answer to Christopher's query on another thread.. yellow I think... but i will add a little bit here.. Deb.. I think your take is right on... Praying (out loud) is certainly one of the mightiest forces I am aware of... It is believed by many that there is power in words, and repeating the same words by many.."Our Father..." brings in a stream of consciousness that can tap into energies not usually accessible... I believe that is true...
Choosing our words carefully can make a big difference in our quality of life...

There is much ado about Mastering Language skills in our schools... If they woould change that to learning the Language of the Masters we would have a much better world...

deb said...

You are right Judy...lower life forms is a poor language choice for the non-human life we share the planet with. I will reread your post tomorrow...I came back to share this article with JG. I've stayed up way too late and have to get up to the new house in the morning...I've been fascinated with the stones as I didn't know about them and have been lost in cyberspace and I am rambling, aren't I?

JG: Another article to share... OUT OF PURE LIGHT, PHYSICISTS CREATE PARTICLES OF MATTER

Judy B. said...

JG.. you might like this...

"In ancient Israel, the Old Testament book of First Kings 6:7, records that in the building of Solomon's Temple, 'Only blocks of undressed stone from the quarry were used; no hammer or ax or any iron tool whatsoever was heard in the house while it was being built.' This feat was accomplished, the Talmudic traditions recount, with the use of a stone called the Shamir (see next article Jachin and Boaz), which caused the stones to be separated and shaped by vibration, and levitated into place with sound."

For more on this go to:
http://home.comcast.net/~georgesaunders/ancient.html#anchor_traditions_ancient

Go about a quarter of a page down to the headline:
"Traditions of Ancient Technology"

Anonymous said...

"If this article has any resemblance of the truth, then...well..."

Do not mean to throw a twist, I must though.

The last time I heard a statement such as this was my mom.
As a kid I had a problem (so I am told) with sleepwalking. Sometimes it was humorous, Sometimes I told far out stories while I walked around in a daze (so I am told) eventually it was agreed upon by family and friends I had an active imagination...I am sure many of us would agree.
Anyway back to the story...One time (70s) I was "sleep walking" while my family was stationed overseas my father woke at his usual 2 am time to go to work and as a ritual checking all the kids before he left. I was not in my bed. They "freaked" called the base police and a search ensued. My mother (almost instinctively) found me at the end of our street, which was one street across from the flight line looking at an empty runway. I am told when she picked me up I gave a story about wanting to watch the rocket plane before falling fast asleep. As usual, brothers, sisters and friends dismissed it as dreaming and sleepwalking, a product of my imagination. Over the years I could give detailed descriptions of what I had seen as well as draw pretty accurate pix of a black rocket with wings. Only to be dismissed as always, giving my history of creative imagination. My mother filed my pix away with other scrapbook items of the time and all but forgot about them. My story continued through high school and into the early part of my post 18 years, always receiving the same response from people I came in contact with.
Sometime in the early 90s the sr-71 blackbird was made public and soon after retired. When it was first announced to the media I remember my mother digging out my drawings, looking at my father and siblings

""If this article has any resemblance of the truth, then...well..."

Please...keep posting...
I'll be back.

John G. in Georgia.

Anonymous said...

The ica stones of Peru is very intriguing. One of the things which makes no sense, a society as advanced as space travel and possibly time travel, could not stop wars. Makes no sense to me at all. I believe the stones and carvings as I feel as I witnessed something similar in New Mexico some years ago.
I have heard the name Stephen Hawkins before, who is he and do you have any links?
Yeah Judy I read that, very interesting. For some reason I had been leaning towards gravitational inflation. Let me explain (if I can) A 7 ton boulder did not weigh seven tons back then. for some reason the gravitational pull of the earth has increased in our time. I also must wonder if they built the pyramids on earth? I cannot shake this vision I have of the entire pyramid being moved (upside down) with ease. In other words we have been told of chambers and vents within the pyramids and their approximate location to one another and asked ourselves why. Flip the pyramid... What you got? I am sure many scientists will be pleasantly surprised when they look at it from that perspective.
http://home.comcast.net/~georgesaunders/mars.html
Did either of you happen to see this? Bush going to Mars still puzzles me…
The answer to dark energy “will be” found as a result of research into LBT. Believe it.
It will revolutionize space travel and our understanding of the universe we all share. New dimensions will open up. I am excited about the possibilities and believe our civilization will most certainly get it right where others have apparently failed.
Thank you for the link Deb, best one yet.
John G. in Georgia

Judy B. said...

More from:
http://home.comcast.net/~georgesaunders/ancient.html#anchor_traditions_ancient

Half way down the page

"If we live in a multiverse, then we know precious little about what other universes would be like. How would beings get from "there" to "here"? Would the laws of physics be the same "there" as "here?"

ARE ALL THESE PARALLEL UNIVERSES COMPLETELY COTERMINOUS AND OVERLAPPING, SEPARATED ONLY BY DIFFERENTIAL RATES OF VIBRATION? (my emphasis, because my experiences tell me that this is the truth)

Is there a structure to how universes are connected in multiversal "space"? We have no way of knowing these things. But someday we may be using other dimensions to travel more rapidly through our own universe.

The discovery and utilization of other dimensions of existence would be a revolution to top that of Copernicus or Hubble. IT WOULD FORCE US TO REVISE OUR IDEA OF SCIENTIFIC LAW ITSELF.
For physics suggests that at the singularity - the place where our universe ends and others begin - the laws of physics do not apply. If our own universe originated in just such a singularity, as Stephen Hawking suggests, then "all bets are off".... and even laws such as "something cannot come from nothing" are negated.

deb said...

A link for JG...Judy, you might be interested also:

United States Psychotronics Association

A Non-Profit Organization 501(C)(3), All Volunteer

Bridging the Esoteric and Scientific Worlds! ! !

Judy B. said...

Deb and all who are interestd... There is another organization.. The Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) founded by astronaut Edgar Mitchell that sounds similar to the above mentioned links...

Mission statement...
"At the Institute of Noetic Sciences, we employ the rigor of science, balanced by personal and collective wisdom, to support a shift in consciousness that transforms present global conditions into a world grounded in freedom, wisdom, and love. We serve an emerging movement of globally conscious citizens dedicated to manifesting our highest capacities"

I have been a member for years, and invite you all to check it out:
http://www.ions.org/index.cfm

Anonymous said...

These organizations would have a field day with some of the far out stuff we come up with...
Read the latest issue of discover magazine, it will not hurt your eyes like these monitors. Thank you for the links I will read them tonite when I have more "free" time.
"Free" time? now that could be another dimension...:-)

JGinG

Judy B. said...

If you think we are far out... read further into some of the links..
Far out is becoming the in thing...

deb said...

The first two links show that it can be done (I know you told us, Richard...lol)...this first one has a combination of articles, pics and video. The forgotten Technology

Stonehenge Answers


R.F. McKenty presents some compelling evidence that there is still something amiss with history as we have written it.

deb said...

Another page from the previous link that I find fascinating:

ADVANCED MACHINING IN ANCIENT EGYPT

Richard Yarnell said...

Briefly, Terrance is still at it.

I was merciless and used my former status as an AFL-CIO Union senior administrator (AEA) for all it was worth.

Enjoy yourselves:

http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/futuresurvey

Judy B. said...

Richard.. I got one too..I simply asked for an appology...

Judy B. said...

Back to the pryamid discussion foa a minute...
I spent the day going through old papers/magazines and cme accross a newspaper that my Mother had saved from our old stomping grounds in Kansas. There is a big article about "Round Mound", the local version of a mountain, kind of out in nowhere. Speculation is that there might be a pryamid underneath.

Richard Yarnell said...

Judy B:

You're a nicer person.

Anonymous said...

Awesome links. Easy to get lost.
Your conversation with Christopher was very interesting Judy B...
Made me think of sound waves and LBT being used simultaneously.
Think bird feathers, most animals are color blind yet bird feathers can be colorful. Look at the design, shape and size of a bird feather as well as the location on the bird. We know some animals hear on different sound frequencies than humans.
Look at the diet of a particular bird, weather it be mammals insects or snakes. What if the shapes size and locations of the feathers created a certain sound wave as well as twist light to increase the stealth of the predator over prey, as well as better enable lift. It's amazing how far some birds fly effortlessly. If we better understood how birds could be using sound and light to better slice through the air...who knows we may end up putting some variation of what we learn on air planes? Imagine the wings giving off a harmonic vibration to increase lift and airflow…Light to increase stealth…
American Indians (Last of the dogmen?) and the ancients all used feathers in ceremonial and wardress, maybe they knew something we did not. The same theory could be applied to mammals and fur.
Also many of the ancients had gold “hats” littered with gems. Could this have helped them “read” light and sound better?
Sequences of gems, light and sound make ancient tools understandable as well as the precision used in creating them. If they could magnify sequences of weight to their advantage in construction, light and sound would have been “a piece of cake”
Deb, have you looked at the pyramids upside down yet? “The heavier the object the easier to move”

Dark Energy and the theory of relativity…
What if there is more space than time and matter? Or vice versa?
Dark energy could be a whole bunch of nothing? How do you measure that?
All this infinite space and not enough universe and time to fill it up…
Would the whole lot of nothing look and act like Dark energy?

John G. in Georgia

Judy B. said...

I do believe that soound/vibration energy and light energy often work together... There is a third energy force to add to the mix...
Breath...

Put them all together and what do you come up with??/

Guess i missed out on the up-side-down pyramid discussion... Where do I go to see it??

christin m p in massachusetts said...

I'm still seething at the recent news of the FDA head conspiring with pharmaceutical companies to cover up the companies' own scientists' findings of the deadly side-effects of some of their highest profit-yielding drugs.

You all may already have read the following article before, but just in case any of you hasn't, I wanted to post it here in hopes that you guys would understand my position on universal health coverage. I believe that it should cover all health care measures except prescription drugs.

You see, I fear that -- through universal health coverage -- taxpayers are going to uwittingly fund people's early deaths, while at the same time making the avaricious pharmaceutical company overlords and major shareholders rich beyond even their wildest dreams.

Why I believe universal health insurance should exclude prescription drug coverage

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Also I would appreciate it if you guys would read this story about a young Massachusetts man who, as a teenager, ran away from home because he knew the chemotherapy treatments he was being forced to undergo -- were killing him. I remember seeing his story way back on the day it first hit the news. I remember feeling so elated that he escaped the deadly chemo treatments, and I knew that by running away, he now had a chance to live a healthy life. He ended up in Houston, and was looked after by some skateboarding friends he met there.

Well, you all can read the rest of the story for yourselves...

Billy Best and 714x

christin m p in massachusetts said...

And this is the most important article of all:

Dana Farber Cancer Institute and the ACS Silenced Our Local Media About Their Own Research Findings

deb said...

Thanks for the links Christin...and another reason we need a media "watch dog" in this country!

Judy B. said...

Christin...
Essiac as a (cancer) treatment has long been used by CanadianNative Americans. Herbalists iften recommend it...
Thanks for the links

Cheryl said...

Christin,
I'm not sure what to do about drug companies. I'm caught in the middle.

Their profits are obscene. They hide data they don't like. Their marketing is to bribe doctors, and give needed drugs to a few people for the publicity.

On the other hand, some of us really do need medications. Between my husband and me, the prescription copays are almost $100 a month. I don't know what the full cost would be, but we probably couldn't afford it.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Cheryl,
Obviously I don't know enough about the workings of the human body to make any absolute statements, but sometimes I wonder whether certain prescription drugs really are necessary -- or if certain doctors just tell people they need them. I'm guessing that a very few really are necessary, and the others create the very problem they are purported to solve, via the "boomerang effect". There are also cases where side effects created by one prescription drug will in turn create a "need" for yet another drug to supposedly treat the added malady.

I'm always open to the possibility of being proved wrong, but based on everything I've seen so far, pure aspirin is the only pill I'll trust. I won't even take Tylenol, because long-term use can damage the liver. A lot of drugs will also damage the kidneys.

The health insurance plan I had at one workplace didn't include my favorite primary care physician -- a young female Hindu intern from India. But I figured the primary care physician I ended up selecting would be good because he was the traditional Jewish-American doctor with many years experience. He did the routine physical, and then wrote me a prescription. I asked him what it was for... He said when he listened to my heart he could hear that I had something called mitral valve prolapse. And it turns out I don't have any of the symptoms! I told him no way -- I'm not taking pills... He was insistent that I needed to take them. I told him, "I'll make whatever lifestyle changes I need to, but absolutely no pills." He spent more time trying to talk me into getting the prescription filled than the time he spent on filling out the history and doing the physical combined.

I ended up canceling my next appointment and never rescheduling with him. I made my next appointment for my physical and post-forty recommended blood tests with my former doctor. The physical was inexpensive enough to afford out-of-pocket. All my tests showed I was in good health. I asked her about the mitral valve prolapse, and she said she didn't detect it when she listened to my heartbeat. She also said I didn't appear to have any of the other symptoms.

I do concede that there are cases where an older, more experienced doctor is the better one to have. For example, when my sister had a miscarriage at 42 years old, her younger, less experienced OB-Gyn brushed it off as if it was something routine, and told my sister she was all set -- that she had nothing further to worry about. But every single day after the miscarriage, my sister still had all the classic symptoms of pregnancy. The young doctor insisted without even doing a follow-up pregnancy test, that she was no longer pregnant.

My sister then switched to a more experienced physician who told her right off that he suspected -- given that older women have a high likelihood of having fraternal twins -- that she probably miscarried one of the twins, and that the other twin was still okay. Sure enough, after he tested her, he told her that there definitely was still a healthy baby there. Thanks to that more thorough, experienced doctor, that baby is now my healthy, soon to be five-year-old niece Rachel.

Anyway, I think there is a benefit to having older establishment doctors in some cases. I just get suspicious of the ones who push pills.

As for me -- I'll stick with the young Hindu woman, who practices medicine with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy. And I love the fact that the prescription pad never surfaces.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Judy,
Where can I find some good Essiac tea? And is there a way to tell whether or not it is authentic and of good quality?

Judy B. said...

Christin... I do not have a source for the tea right now. I will have to check with my herbalist friend....
Before taking anything like that I would suggest that you find your own herbalist/naturopath to advise you....
There is surely a naturopathic college back there to find a good practictioner in your area... so you can get referrals.
If not, check out BASTYR University at http://www.bastyr.edu/
This school, located in Seattle has the best credentials of them all (as far as I am concerned)...

Cheryl said...

Christin,
I've come across a few incompetent/indifferent doctors. One of the things I hate most about moving is the search for a doctor that will be a doctor. Sometimes medicine is the answer. Sometimes it isn't. What we need are doctors that will take the time to find the appropriate treatment.

BTW, mitral valve prolapse is a very common heart defect. It can be hard to detect which could explain why one doctor didn't hear it. It is usually harmless and needs no treatment. It can cause symptoms such as fatigue in a few people. In that case, the symptoms need to be treated.

Judy B. said...

Cheryl...
The hundred dollar a month co-pay sounds pretty reasonable for two people if you are on very much medication....

I have found some good natural replacements for some drugs, but everythihng depends on the individual...

My husbands co-pay just for oxygen is over $50... I think he would get better benefit with some good breathing exercises, but he isn't the kind to take charge of his own health, so does just what the doctors say... and at a very high (financial) cost i must say..

Alternative medicine does not come cheap either, and most insurance doesn't cover it...
The thing I like best about natural medicine is learning to get in tune with my body so I can recognize when something is starting to get out of whack, and can nip it in the bud...
No amount of health care can over-come bad lifestyle choices however... and I have made plenty of them over the years...

Richard Yarnell said...

Cheryl,

Ask your old doctor if he knows anyone he respects/admires in your new town.

You may be surprised.

Richard Yarnell said...

henriettesherbal.com

I know Henrietta. She and Susan travelled to Santa Fe to study and Henrietta has been serious about it since.

For those not interested in medicinal herbs, there's a culinary section too.

She has a couple of books out, beautifully and expensively published (just not in English).

The site is primarily in English which she speaks and writes fluently.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Judy,
I checked out that site for BASTYR University -- I wasn't even aware such schools existed... I'm going to wait till the weekend to read more about it, so I can devote more time to it.

Cheryl,
I suppose he may very well have heard the mitral valve prolapse when he was listening to my heart, but it's definitely not causing fatigue. The only time I ever feel anything like fatigue, is when I'm sleep deprived. As long as I have enough sleep, I feel as energetic as a healthy fifteen-year-old. And whenever I get too much sleep, I become hyperactive -- wound up like a toddler hopped up on sugar...

So far, sleep -- along with the occasional aspirin -- seems to be a cure-all for me. But just in case, I want to procure a stash of that Essiac tea.

By way of that site henriettesherbal.com (Thanks, Rich), I found this address: http://theherbs.info/

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Dan,
I'm hoping your internet service is hooked back up now -- I'm dying to hear about your new place... Are you guys settled in yet? And have you already met your new neighbors?

dan said...

Christin, yup I'm back on line. The move went pretty smooth. We're getting settled in somewhat, but at the moment my son, his wife and 2 boys (age 2 and 5, aka *the demolition crew*) are visiting. I should be able to do some blogging next week. The new neighbors are terrific.

deb said...

Asheville, NC is another place renowned for alternative healing.

The area also has much in the way of alternative/renewable resource living. A recent conference focused on Asheville actually becoming a "pilot program" city to lead the way in going "green". Exciting stuff!!!

I have been out of the loop for a while. I have two young men (18) from France staying with me. They speak little in the way of Eng. and I do not speak French. They actually read more Eng. than they speak, so some of the communication problems might be a southern accent thing. I have them for a week and am trying to show them authentic US culture. Yesterday we went to a bluegrass festival complete with a hog calling and rooster crowing contest and cloggers dancing. I was told that it was "genuine"...a very good word I think;)

christin m p in massachusetts said...

I posted this at Christopher's blog too -- in his book meme post. But I thought this blog would be a particularly good place to put it.

I'm thinking that maybe you all are already familiar with David Sirota, but just in case any of you are not, I wanted to point you to his web site at
http://www.davidsirota.com/

I was wondering, have any of you read his book Hostile Takeover: How Big Money & Corruption Conquered Our Government -- and How We Take It Back?

I know we were recently talking about books in the blue thread, but Rich posted something about a matter of grave concern there last night -- so I thought I should put this here in the "catch-all" thread.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Hi Deb,
It's good to see you back here. It looks like I started to write my post just before you published yours, so the last one I saw in this thread before I started composing was Dan's response to me two days ago. I was trying to avoid stepping on Rich's post in the blue thread, and then I ended up stumbling over yours in this thread anyway.

I like that North Carolina is becoming "the place to be". My brother and one of his good friends plan to move down to Charlotte before the end of the year -- his friend has already lived in that area before. And once they get settled, I plan to go check out the jobs and housing market there for myself too.

What is that kind of dancing like -- that "cloggers" do?

Cheryl said...

Deb,
Sounds like you've had an interesting week.

Much of North Carolina is very traditional South (conservative), but Asheville and Chapel Hill are considered liberal hubs. I have a lot of respect for Rep David Price from Raleigh.

I wonder if the difference is from all the Yankees invading North Carolina.

Judy B. said...

If I didn't live in the Pacific NorthWest I think I might consider North Carolina.. I have heard others speak good things about it...
Cheryl, Where do you live?? I thought you were from Alabama.. Am I wrong?/

Judy B. said...

If I didn't live in the Pacific NorthWest I think I might consider North Carolina.. I have heard others speak good things about it...
Cheryl, Where do you live?? I thought you were from Alabama.. Am I wrong?/

Cheryl said...

I live in Alabama now. I lived in Raleigh for a few years beore moving here. We really liked living there, but got caught up in the telecom downsizing.

deb said...

Interesting week...yep! Having an exchange student while I also had teens worked out OK, but having somebody elses teens that don't speak much Eng. without the benefit of other teens, has been quite another experience. They are on the vacation of their lives and have been stuck with sombody else's parents.

Without the benefit of language we look at each other and smile a lot.

They seem to be great kids...but that's sort of it...they are kids. They aren't old enough to rent a car, so to see the sights they are stuck with us.

Today they are going in a cave and then to a swimming hole where they can jump off a rock into the pool. Tomorrow is kayaking and the Wed. to the Biltmore house and on to Nashville to spend the next leg of their trip with my daughter Lisa.

Did you guess that I am very much looking forward to Wed. night?

The next time I am asked if someone who isn't old enough to rent a car can stay with me, I will plan a vacation elsewhere during that time, lol.

deb said...

Is anyone besides me having problems getting to Christopher's blog? When I try to go to it I get "page cannot be displayed".

Christopher??? Still there good buddy???

Judy B. said...

Didn't have any troouble getting into http://tropicalembellishments.blogspot.com/

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Yes I am still here. Trying to get some jungle taming time in. Sometimes Blogger does that. Try hitting the refresh button. If that doesn't work leave and come back or close the browser and try again. I am not having trouble with the page opening.

deb said...

Hey it worked for me this time...I don't know what happened before. I see you have made several posts with lots of pics. I'll return to it when I need a Hawaiian vacation;)

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Christopher,
How do I get Technorati and a site meter like you have? Is it expensive, and do I have to pay with my credit card? If so, do you think it's secure enough to pay that way?

I want to pay the subscription fee for Dave's Garden too, so I can read all the forums there, and not just the free ones. I know that one only costs fifteen dollars (per year -- No?), but I've been worried about the inherent risk in entering credit card numbers on line.

And how secure is PayPal?

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Technorati and Sitemeter are free. Just go to their sites and follow the directions which involves placing the HTML code for their button into the template of your blog, like when you wanted to add links in the side bar.

I do not shop on line.
I do not like to shop in stores.
Stuff just seems to find me.
Too much stuff in all honesty.
I have no clue about PayPal security.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Thanks for the info on Technorati and sitemeter, Christopher -- I'm always happy to hear that something is free.

I also love to read that someone isn't buying stuff -- especially in that poetic "Green Eggs and Ham" way you wrote that.

I wish everyone would stop buying stuff they don't need. I've been eliminating as much useless stuff from my life as possible over the past decade. I buy so little that when I do get something -- including just a snack -- I appreciate it so much more than I used to when I was a wasteful spender.

That reminds me -- I haven't checked freecycle.org today. I think I posted it here once before, but incorrectly with .com instead of .org...

For anyone who's interested you can probably find one in your local area by checking the list here:
freecycle.org/allgroups.html

deb said...

Thanks Christin, I had heard about it, but hadn't been to the site. I just joined the local chapter. I usually donate the extra stuff to the thrift store. I am like you and Christopher...too much stuff seems to end up here and I absolutely hate to shop (except at bookstores)...amazing isn't it?

Richard Yarnell said...

I've been using PayPal for a long time. It is an encrypted site. Treat it as you would the materials associated with your bank account. I have mine attached to a bank account and have had no problem. It puts an extra layer of encryption between me and the people I do business with. I do use it sparingly.

As for credit cards on line:

If you know who it is you're doing business with, that is, if they are reputable, I think there's less chance you'll have a problem than there is using the phone or even using your card in person. Some rules:

a) check to make sure you're working on a secure (encrypted) site. The browsers I'm familiar with use a padlock icon as an indicator. (If your browser supports it, tell it to notify you when you enter and leave secure sites.

b) no reputable financial organization will use email to solicit information from you. Even PayPal. They may ask you to log into your account on occasion to find a message from them in their secure email. Don't use the URL that email provides unless you know how to check the address to which it leads you. Rather, use the links you have stored in your bookmarks.

c) I have a credit card that I use only for online purchases. That makes it much easier to keep track of usage. I have asked the credit company to keep the limit low.

d) always print out orders, receipts, and transaction records. I usually do that before I submit an order (print page) and then print their receipt when it appears. It's tantamount to keeping a purchase order and matching it with an invoice.

dan said...

I've been using the local freecycle for a number of years. It really is an effective way to keep unwanted items out of the dumps. Things that might not be suitable to donate to the local charity are perfect for freecycle. Excess building materials are commonly offered as are items that are blemished or need minor repairs. If you need something, just ask. Patty's classroom VCR broke, she just posted: need working VCR for inner-city classroom. She was given one that day.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Yeah, that's a really cool feature about freecycle.org -- that if someone needs something, they can just ask for it. Like, last month a woman at our local chapter needed broken small appliances as learning materials for her child to use at invention camp. Apparently a lot of people hold on to broken things, because she got more than enough offers.

After reading that woman's post, another woman said she would take some of the broken small appliances that the first woman didn't need, because she decided that she would like to send her child to invention camp too.

Judy B. said...

As for credit cards on-line, i have another suggestion. Several credit card companies (American Express, etc) offer a variety of credit options, one of them being a card that is only used for on-line purchases, and it has a fraud detector feature. Other options include having a one time only credit number that can be used and then it is permanently eliminated from the mix...
My computer/internet guru (daughter Kristin)does all of my on-line buying for me and tells me not to worry... She pays all of her bills on-line and does her banking, investing on line... She knows the ropes, but she assures me that if I am careful, it is probably safer (and cheaper)than the mail...

Judy B. said...

P.S. Richard, she doesn't like Pay Pal..

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Judy,
Is PayPal riskier? What is it about that payment system that your daughter doesn't like?

Richard Yarnell said...

One of the things to like: I keep some cash at PayPal which pays money-market rates while the banks are paying fractions of 1%.

I started using it when we started selling spinning books on line. (Susan asked our supplier if they had copies of a wonderful and beautifully produced "Color In Spinning," which was out of print. They had and we bought all of them. She then mentioned in her "sig" that she had used copies for sale. In one day, she sold all of them. The most remote sale was to a woman in rural Israel - I still get emotional when I consider the reach that this gadget gives all of us. She had a credit card so I sent her the bill from PayPal. We had payment the same day too. She had the book less than a week later!

What's not to like?

ry

Judy B. said...

I really do not know why she doesn't like pay-pal... next time I see her I will ask..

christin m p in massachusetts said...

I'm watching ABC's 20/20 right now. There are two sisters who used to work for State Farm Insurance (both for 8 years) who are exposing the ways that the insurance company altered and destroyed documents to cheat the victims of Katrina out of their rightful payments. The sisters blew the whistle while they were still working there, so right now they're suspended.

Anonymous said...

Deb,
I will answer a question here from a previous thread. Thank you for asking...
Compared to three weeks ago I am much much better. Right now the swelling between the third and fourth lumbar creates tenderness and weird discomforts in my right leg. It is worse in the mornings after I have attempted to sleep all night. The steriods and pain pills they give me only make me sick, one night I almost had a dern heartattack, scared me to ...well not quite. but the tenderness, numbness and spasms in that leg are new to me. I am open to suggestions at this point.
Generally I am overall healthy yet this injury has set me back or at least dictated a lifestyle change.
I have a four year old which depends on me from sunup to sundown, this has been very trying for her having her daddy slowed a bit. Thankfully my 21 year old has returned home to assist with my recovery and her lil sister. What a god send yet, it is also affecting her, although you could not tell it, she never slows down and has basically grown up in a big hurry.
I do however find relief on this blog, I cannot thank you folks enough...it is the one thing I can still do that I was doing before the injury. Sitting is difficult but worth the effort. so much to learn.
I also wrote a strongly worded letter to the hospital administrator about my experience with the ER. while praising the doctors and nurses which helped and continue to help me.
He quickly replied, was very helpful, IS taking action which I hope will benefit all patients and has promised to implement some of my IDEAS which by his own admission they never thought of.
As of now no patient brought in with back pain will ever be transferred to a wheel chair again and if a patient requests being transferred to another hospital they will provide transportation.
So I guess something positive came out of it.
I have also wrote my congresscritter about rising healthcare costs and the growing number of working uninsured. I expressed my disbelief with 300 billion spent in Iraq and Americans footing the bill while at the sametime many cannot afford proper healthcare. He agreed, was responsive and continues to correspond. Neither he nor the hospital administrator had ever thought of bypassing insurance crooks, and medicare as well as indiginent care and charging persons monthly and directly for emergency room care should they ever need it. basically if you pay there hospital and should ever need to use their emergency room, you will be afforded the same care and and discounts as the insurance crooks.
The money will be used to expand the ER and speed up it's services to those just passing through...
At this point ER'S take care of trauma patients first and let the less ill pile up in the waiting room, hoping they will just go away.
This is due to a shortage of ER doctor's. The new ER will have two seperate missions and focus on keeping the less ill in and out in under an hour, relieving pressure on doctor's which need to focus on trauma patients and hopefully cutting down on mistakes. The ER waitstaff will be trained on the importance of their roles as the first line of defense further relieving pressure from doctors and hopefully prevent mild cases from becoming acute. They may even put more comfortable chairs and possibly beds in the waiting room so as to make waiting patients more comforatable while waiting for doctor... There is more but I am sure you get the picture.
So not all lifestyle changes are bad, end result I hope future patients benefit from my experience. I am now a new activist with a bum leg.

Your friend John G.

Cheryl said...

John,
Glad to hear you are getting better. I hope you have a full recovery.

I know what you mean about this blog. I can't spend too much time on my feet, or out in the heat. Besides, a lot of what I have to say isn't too healthy to say around here.

Good luck with any improvements you can make to the health care system. We definately need it.

deb said...

WOW JG. I am seriously impressed with your activism and solutions.

My brother-in-law injured his back and most pain pills did not work on him, but there was one that did. I will find out the name for you the next time I talk with them. He had back surgery and his doctor did a wonderful job. It isn't 100%, but is perhaps close to 80%. He had excruciating hip and leg pain also, it is all but gone now. He lives in Birmingham, are you interested in finding out the name of his doctor?

You had told us before that you are a single parent and age 4 is a difficult age in that they really don't understand yet. Your older daughters really are special.

I spent quite a few years working with kids that had disabilities. For a person with physical limitations and injuries positioning is the key. If it hurts your body is telling you something...don't put yourself in that position. Since you can't adapt yourself to certain positions you must adapt your environment to the positions that you are comfortable in. Buy a "memory foam" topper for your bed, fabric stores sometimes sell them. Buy extra pillows and at least one "memory foam" (maybe 2) to sit on in the car and when sitting in chairs. Learn to sleep in a position that takes all of the stress off of your back...it will be trial and error, but I suggest start out on your side holding a big, firm pillow and allowing the leg that hurts to rest on top of that pillow. Have your daughter tuck other pillows (or towel roll) against your back. If this puts you into a painless position then learn to sleep that way...if not keep experimenting until all (or most) of the stress is off that injury. Think outside of the box...just because you have learned to lay flat on a bed to sleep doesn't mean it can't be done another way...use those pillows. Putting pillows in a row under the memory foam to support your side at the waist might relieve the stress on the spine. Another option besides pillows is making a roll from a towel or hand towel. Rolling a towel lengthwise and duct taping the "seam" may well give you a positioning tool that might be effective for you.

Strenghten your immune system. Vitamins D (especially) and C, CoQ10 and magnesium are essential. You can get D from the sun...could you get in a position to lay where you get direct sunlight on your back several times a day? C is easily obtained from citrus fruit...fresh fruit is better than boxed juice. This CoQ10 link was done with a quick search so I didn't thoroughly read it, but if there isn't enough info do another search. CoQ10 really is a primary building block for all of our cells. Magnesium...can you soak in the bathtub? If so soak in epsom salt for a half hour every day. Magnesium absorbs through the skin into the muscles better than by taking a suppplement. Use a whole carton in every bath. Epsom salt is cheap and available at the dollar store.

And for anyone else reading...these 4 substances will generate health for anyone.

JG, I know that you are a strong do-it-yourselfer...slow down (yes, even further) and allow yourself time to heal. Experiment with all positions...move your pc to where you don't have to get into a bad position to use it...you have plenty of creative ideas...use that talent to heal yourself.

deb said...

Hi Cheryl, I was typing and didn't see your post until I hit send. The supplements suggested for JG really are beneficial to everyone...if you can't be in the sun vit E taken orally is readily absorbed.

Judy B. said...

JG... You are a wonder...
Finding meaning in your time of distress and pain is quite up-lifting... I applaud you...

Deb has given some useful information about using things that yoou can get at the store to assist in your healing. And I agree with her...

But I believe that you have an even better tool and that is your wonderful IMAGINATION... Begin by SEEING yourself whole and healthy again... In the Healing Arts Community it is known as CREATIVE VISUALIisation... If you have a hard time figuring out what/how to do it, there are audio tapes that can assist you...

Also when pain is bad...FOCUS your mind on where the pain is, bring your breathing to a measured rate, and begin breathing into the pain... RELAX as you go deeper and deeper into the pain.. and let it GO...

There are many other ways, this is what works for me...

Judy B. said...

JG... You are a wonder...
Finding meaning in your time of distress and pain is quite up-lifting... I applaud you...

Deb has given some useful information about using things that yoou can get at the store to assist in your healing. And I agree with her...

But I believe that you have an even better tool and that is your wonderful IMAGINATION... Begin by SEEING yourself whole and healthy again... In the Healing Arts Community it is known as CREATIVE VISUALIisation... If you have a hard time figuring out what/how to do it, there are audio tapes that can assist you...

Also when pain is bad...FOCUS your mind on where the pain is, bring your breathing to a measured rate, and begin breathing into the pain... RELAX as you go deeper and deeper into the pain.. and let it GO...

There are many other ways, this is what works for me...

Anonymous said...

Thank You.
I will try these things. My mom was a rn for 30 years and she has told me to do things similar...but I told her I did not like to be babied. I really do but I was just trying to be strong because I do not like to see her cry.
Judy, do you mean my imagination is a strong point? thank you. believe it or not it has paid off a time or two. It is amazing how simple out of the box suggestions can affect so many for the better.
It's all in "who" you tell.
Judy do you live around a log structure with a dirt driveway and mountains on the horizon, and does anyone you know ever worked in the timber industry? just wondering.

Your friend John G.

Judy B. said...

Yes John, I do believe that your imagination is one of your strong points. Use it to heal...

Judy B. said...

I woould like to propose an experiment with all of you on this blog...
Tomorrow night at 7pm PDT, I will be meeting with my Monday Night Ladies. I will ask them to join me in sending healing energy to John.
Will you all join me in setting aside that time, and also send John love, prayeres, energy of your choice???
And John, will you open up to receiving that healing???
If the answer is yes, please respond back, as a mind closed to the reception can rebound...

deb said...

Sure Judy...I am more than willing to send healing energy JG's way...and already have been. That would be 10 EST right?

JG, The name of the prescription medicine that my brother in law found effective is "SOMA" it is actually a muscle relaxer. Nothing else was effective for him. It is one of those drugs where you shouldn't drive a car or operate machinery, so he could only take it in the evening...but evening was when he was the most uncomfortable. Your doctor might have some samples to try before you buy a whole prescription.

deb said...

Oh, sorry, 10pm EDT

dan said...

Sure Judy, I'll be here at 10pm EDT and do my best although the concept is totally new to me.

Anonymous said...

Yeah,
I have heard of those soma's. I will talk to my doctor. Thank you
10:00 p.m. edt, how do I know it's working? sucker's smartin this mornin. excuse the french.
Dig the new pic on the blog. Takes an eye to find the simple pretty in a flower...

Your Friend John G.

Judy B. said...

John, I do hope you do not have to rely too much on pain pills... muscle relaxants do have a place, but you can do the same thing that they do, with your imagination , visualization and your breath...
Tonight, for 5 minutes...while we are sending yoou healing energy, Imagine that you are recieving LBT from the Source..
Relax, breqthe slowly, deeply, regularly, with your mind focused on the point where the pain originates...
I really do not know how you can tell if it works or how it will affect you... I usually get a "buzz" and feel the energy start moving through-out my body...
Other than that, I will not give you any other ideas... You let us know what/or if anything happens...

Judy B. said...

O.K... Now I know you all are really going to think I am weird, but I do need to give a word of caution to those sending energy...

When you open up your heart to send love, others in need can try to "steal" it, so you need to say, out-loud, "This energy is only for John G. in Georgia. All others need to find a different source..."

John G. You need to say.. "I open to the healing energy of the Monday Nite Ladies, to Dan and Deb.." Yoou can add names of others who lets you know that they are sending you healing...

At the end of the 5 minutes, everyone needs to say... "this healing session is over"

I will explain more about this tomorrow, if need be..

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

I think that is 4pm my time so I will do it if am not being distracted at the time.

deb said...

Hey, JG...care to comment?

Anonymous said...

I fell asleep...

Woke up about 10:30 and focused on the healing where it hurt the most.

Leg and back still sore, just not numb and tender right now. That in itself is a relief. Talk to you tommorrow, Thanx everybody.
Judy your an angel. I'm going back to sleep...dream up some more s.tuff.

Your friend John G.

Judy B. said...

Jonh G...
Falling asleep is often the body's first line of defense when injured... Much can happen in your sleep that your conscious mind will filter out...
Sometime healing comes slow (if you believe in time), and sometimes it is instantaneous...
Stay open to the love and healoing that are being sent your way...
and protedt yurself from the negative....
If you will post your email address, I will send you some other ideas...

Judy B. said...

JG... in answer to your questions:
"Judy do you live around a log structure with a dirt driveway and mountains on the horizon, and does anyone you know ever worked in the timber industry? just wondering."

I live in a ranch style home built out of wood... so I guess you could say I live ion a log house...
My very long driveway is part asphault, part dirt/gravel...
I can't see the mountains from where I live... the foot-hill are in the way.. My view out the front has the appearance of moountains...
I know many people who work inthe timber industry... my husband was an industrial electrician for Weyerhaueser (major timber company) for almost 40 years...

Anonymous said...

The reason I asked was you remind me of my aunt which moved to Oregon years ago. I seldom hear from her and the only picture I have seen was one such as I described. My Mom speaks of her often and flies out there every couple of years to visit. Ironically, My Mom found her brother whom she had not seen in 60 years in Oregon the early part of this year. He flew down to Georgia for a surprise reunion and the first I heard of it was on local fox news, it was also televised on one of your local stations. I cried from the story and then my kids screamed GRANDMA'S ON T.V.. Talk about flipping out... That was cool.
Anyway he went off to WW2 and as was common at that point in our nations history there family got seperated as grandma and grandpa moved to the factories and he went off to war. It was 60 years before they would see each other again or know what eventually came of one another. I did not even know she had a brother.
When I met him. I asked him about the vote by mail system Oregon has. He was supportive but he stated it had it's kinks which needed to be worked out...
Anyway back to my mom's sister. You remind me of her. she moved out to Oregon back in the 70s, married a man which worked for weyerhauser, had two kids and lived happily ever after in tune with nature on the edge of a mountain in a log house with a dirt driveway. Yes I will get you my E-mail as soon as I get my new computer with my old hard drive and I e-mail Deb. She will give it to you.

Thanx again,
your friend John G.

Richard Yarnell said...

JG,

I'd be curious to know what shortcomings your uncle believes exist in the vote by mail system.

Thanks.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Speaking of voting systems, I just read this article at the Maui News, about how they have their new ballot-counting machines ready in time for the September 23rd primary election and the November 7th general election, but that they won't have enough precinct workers to staff all the sites.

I think the reason they can't get enough people might have something to do with the fact that the poll workers have to start at 5:30 in the morning. Yikes!

Here is the article:

Machines ready, but workers needed

Judy B. said...

I just closed the book on the last page of Anderson Cooper's book, "Dispatches from the Edge"..
I recccommend it...

deb said...

Just jotted the title of that book down on my list, Judy. It is one I would like to read, thanks. From The Publisher

Anonymous said...

Richard,
I would to. It was the first and so far last time I met him so we did not elaborate. If I remember correctly I was having a conversation with you at the time about the wisdom of introducing letter carriers and postal janitors to the system at the time, so it made sense to ask him. Overall I got the sense he was suppotive so I ended my conversation with you about it over at SSB. When You first posted that vote by mail system, a check which was 25 years old had finally arrived for my father at my grandmothers, via U.S. MAIL.
It sparked a conversation between family and friends and some retired postal workers had told stories of postal janitors intercepting mail belonging to family members they were mad at. It left me with the impression the U.S. POSTAL service is not very secure.
Since that time, your views have motivated me to visit the local election office and inquire about vote by mail and voter immigration.
The election supervisors responded they were looking at that, based on Oregon, yet at this time were concerned about campaighn workers paying the homeless and needy to vote their way and mailing the ballots for them...which has happened feet from polling places.
I do not believe Oregon is a member of the "good ole boy's club"
Yet Georgia has a history of corrupt politicians as is evident in the recent rise of so many being charged with various crimes and removed from office. I asked would the percentage of corruption top the legitimate votes enough to tip the election, Their reply was at this time they did not know yet were studying it... so we will see.
Maybe you will be the one which eventually made Georgia vote by mail...I would not seriously put it past you.
At this point I am less skeptical and more supportive than I was at SSB.

your frien John G.