JG, I couldn't resolve the AOL address. The Blogger address is doing funny things and I'm pretty sure there's more to the address than is shown. If you can make a link out of it...?
This line from the article jumped out; "At least 11 tornadoes were reported throughout western Nebraska, destroying or damaging three homes and at least 10 miles of power lines. Two twisters touched down in far northwest Kansas, severely damaging three homes, authorities said."
The southeast has the largest number of tornados, but they do more damage in the midwest. It has to be the terrain. Strait, flat paths are why they will stay on the ground for so long, which is needed for them to become supercells. The southeast is hilly, and it is not uncommon for them to go over top of an area and miss the buildings below the funnel.
"My personal interest is to try and figure out how to shrink all that energy down and stick it under the hood of my pickup so we can stick it to the oil guys."
That statement made me think of Richards' windmill. There is definately wind around a moving car, and hot wind if desired. Any possibility of creating one of those tornadic windmills (in miniature) in or on a vehicle? A way to capture the power?
I used to do bubble shapes with my kindergarteners. Easiest way is to blow bubbles with one of those multi bubble wands so that many exist at the same time. We'd blow them into a variety of clear glass containers so we could hunt for shapes and create more by maneuvering them with various soapy wands. Good way to spend fascinating hours with a 5 year old JG.
Richard, I am very impressed that you made the bubble/octagon connection in relation to Saturn...do you think we should tell NASA or just keep them guessing? ;-)
There are usually inefficiencies that keep a system from being 100% effective;
If that's true, then trying to recapture the energy required to push a car through the atmosphere (drag) will fail because a) there would be those losses to inefficiency and b) it would require a large cross section cylinder in the stream of air which would introduce massive drag.
However, there are schemes by which some energy can be recaptured: my Prius allows the driver to brake using the engine. That energy is used to turn the electric motor into a generator that recharges the battery without using any gas.
There are experimental cars and buses that use flywheels to capture braking energy and then to feed that energy to an electric motor for assisted acceleration.
Thanx for the link Deb, you cannot deny the video, The funnel runs parallel to the power lines...Took out 11 miles of the stuff...Guess the power co. does not have to cut the power to them lines huh?
I spoke with a gentleman today who lost his cabinet making shop twice due to fire. After the second fire the fire marshal found it started within the pipes of his central vacuum system he had hooked up to all his saws and tools for collecting excess sawdust. He had tried to save a little money and went with standard Home Depot 2 inch pvc pipe as opposed to the recommended 2 inch od (outside diameter) pipe as recommended by building codes. The difference is the materials in standard PVC pipe are more likely to react with the cyclonic vacuum of the dust and create massive amounts of static electricity within the pipe creating sparks and then fire. 2 inch OD retards that.
With this in mind it poses some questions for me. Most tornadoes occur in the early evening hours due to temperature fluctuations at that time as well as other variables some yet to be recognized. Tornadoes in the early morning hours are rare. The one in Camille Ga. Several years ago was a rarity and as of yet has not been explained. Camille Ga is a southwestern Ga. Farming community, considering it was unusually warm that morning it is safe to assume the community was using more energy than usual preparing for farming operations as well as AC. Also, and this probably holds true for the Midwest, the fields were freshly cultivated in preparation for the growing season. Do certain types of dirt or dust generate more static electricity than others and under what weather conditions do they become more likely to do so? Do Monsanto and other chemical companies test their fertilizers and bug killers in a cyclone at high rates of speed to determine if they do as well? Should we somehow study and change our farming operations to retard conditions favorable to these storms? Should we zone in green zones or dunes of some sort on farmland to retard conditions necessary for these to form and travel great distances? Should we change zoning laws so as certain housing areas and there buildings do not actually increase the conditions favorable for a touchdown? During Katrina one of these tornado/storms came through, it touched down north of the power lines, took out some buildings and broke up soon after hitting the woods. Since that time the woods were clear-cut for the pine and ironically one of these funnels followed the same path, only where the woods had been before clear cutting, it increased strength before slamming the neighborhood. Would dust and debris in a cyclone going two or three hundred miles an hour bouncing off power lines create more or less static electricity within the storm? Would this static electricity increase the storms strength or retard it? Should we put power lines around open fields or should we explore our options? Can we build a cyclonic condensation unit, which by its very nature produces more energy than it consumes or at the least run more efficient than what we have?
“IF there are columns of gas rising to the top of Saturn's atmosphere in columns,”
"Do Monsanto and other chemical companies test their fertilizers and bug killers in a cyclone at high rates of speed to determine if they do as well?" Did you leave out something JG? I don't understand the logic of this question at all.
"Should we zone in green zones or dunes of some sort on farmland to retard conditions necessary for these to form and travel great distances?" I think that is a great idea. Farming practices changed "overnight" to prevent another "dustbowl".
I think this is a great idea. Any land east of Tulsa will grow it's own forest if left uncut. If farmers quit cutting their fence lines, a natural wind barrier would exist. It would also have the benefit of adding so many more trees to the planet and give wildlife (birds, rabbits, etc.) a home. Also, think of how much gasoline or diesel fuel is wasted cutting fence lines.
"I don't understand the logic of this question at all."
Well, If certain types of soil are more likely to generate static electricity in a cyclone than others, it would stand to reason if you put a layer of chemical or fertilizer with the same abilities simply by it's elemental composition and multiply that by many square miles, you have the formula for a more severe storm if one ever happens along. We know they test the stuff for it's impact on the food chain and erosion as well as decay in the soil, but do they test it for when it becomes airborne during a storm mixing with other elements at high speeds being zapped by lightning all the while slammed against live power lines? Does it increase storm strength or static electricity? When they were testing hurricane prevention they weakened one (they think) by mixing some sort of high altitude chemical crystals...Stands to reason some chemicals would have the opposite effect...
"Moist air contains a tremendous amount of thermodynamic energy. The amount of energy required to convert liquid water into water vapor is roughly equivalent to the amount of energy contained in the same weight of TNT. That is, the energy required to turn 1 Kg of liquid water into water vapor, is roughly the same as the energy contained in 1Kg of TNT!"
We should develop and market a "Static electricity Cyclonic Energy Condensor" and market it to the big three...
I am sure there are some farming chemicals and even the area surrounding electrical power lines and water bodies where multiple small variations (dark energy) actually "feed" the storm or funnel due to either temp variations or "dewpoints" favorable to the storm body.
I used to landscape and manage a small plant nursery and remember the truck loads of dirt they brought in mixed with fertilizers and organics for the plants, we would cover the pile of dirt to prevent the rain from leeching all the fertilizers into the ground before we could use the dirt. When we came in in the cool mornings and uncovered the pile, the bottoms of the tarps were always wet from condensation and once we broke into the piles to begin operations the piles would steam from the tremendous heat. The girls doing the potting of plants generally had to take their jackets off as they worked over the dirt even when it was low 40s outside. Point is the fertilized dirt retained and gave off more heat than regular dirt due to the fertilizer mix. Now multiply that by many square miles, kick it into the upper atmosphere and "mix" it with everything else going on up there and wah lah, recipe for disaster. We know they test the stuff to see what it does when it does what it is supposed to in the ground, but do they test to see what it will do when it does what it was not intended to do and high in the atmosphere?
It's amazing how educational kos can be. There's a marine biologist with a regular feature. Another poster has a series on forgotten founding fathers.
John G, sounds like composting to me. I'm all for more composting. Richard probably knows more about this, but I think I've seen something about using composting cow manure as an energy source.
What kind of fertilizer was in your new potting soil?
I think Cheryl has it right: there was bacterial action going on in your piles of new soil. The piles of soil are reasonably well insulated, even more so, since you covered them. When bacteria feed, just like we do, they create heat.
In fact, there are three stages of bacterial action in a compost pile. One of them, "thermophylic" involves bacteria that can tolerate temperatures as high as 160-170F.
Nothing magical, just a whole lot of bacterial action in the soil. If the soil had added nitrogen, whether in organic form or not, that raised the C:N ratio encouraging rapid digestion of the organic portion of the soil. It's a good thing.
The proposed anaerobic digester, to be complete by summer 2007, will produce approximately 2,000 kWh of electricity each day, more than 3 times the amount of electricity the farm currently uses.
I'm guessing based on recent front seat observations that is part of the puzzle. The inefficiency which is built in to trailers and some homes does not help either. It is amazing to me how one of the most powerful forces on earth is so easily influenced by the most minute details... I also believe forces within the earth’s surface are using trailer anchors and transmission towers to make the connection (antennas) needed between underground and atmospheric forces to connect dictating the path of a funnel once it forms. An in depth review of recent events all display a distinct pattern, especially when viewed from the air after one passes...
215 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 215 of 215JG, I couldn't resolve the AOL address. The Blogger address is doing funny things and I'm pretty sure there's more to the address than is shown. If you can make a link out of it...?
This is the link to the article JG posted:
Storm Spawns Dozens of Deadly Tornadoes
This line from the article jumped out; "At least 11 tornadoes were reported throughout western Nebraska, destroying or damaging three homes and at least 10 miles of power lines. Two twisters touched down in far northwest Kansas, severely damaging three homes, authorities said."
The southeast has the largest number of tornados, but they do more damage in the midwest. It has to be the terrain. Strait, flat paths are why they will stay on the ground for so long, which is needed for them to become supercells. The southeast is hilly, and it is not uncommon for them to go over top of an area and miss the buildings below the funnel.
"My personal interest is to try and figure out how to shrink all that energy down and stick it under the hood of my pickup so we can stick it to the oil guys."
That statement made me think of Richards' windmill. There is definately wind around a moving car, and hot wind if desired. Any possibility of creating one of those tornadic windmills (in miniature) in or on a vehicle? A way to capture the power?
I used to do bubble shapes with my kindergarteners. Easiest way is to blow bubbles with one of those multi bubble wands so that many exist at the same time. We'd blow them into a variety of clear glass containers so we could hunt for shapes and create more by maneuvering them with various soapy wands. Good way to spend fascinating hours with a 5 year old JG.
Richard, I am very impressed that you made the bubble/octagon connection in relation to Saturn...do you think we should tell NASA or just keep them guessing? ;-)
Still brainstorming on the tornadic windmill. Could the hot exhaust shoot at an angle into a cooler wind tunnel and produce additional thrust?
Physics is inconvenient at times:
There are usually inefficiencies that keep a system from being 100% effective;
If that's true, then trying to recapture the energy required to push a car through the atmosphere (drag) will fail because a) there would be those losses to inefficiency and b) it would require a large cross section cylinder in the stream of air which would introduce massive drag.
However, there are schemes by which some energy can be recaptured: my Prius allows the driver to brake using the engine. That energy is used to turn the electric motor into a generator that recharges the battery without using any gas.
There are experimental cars and buses that use flywheels to capture braking energy and then to feed that energy to an electric motor for assisted acceleration.
Thanx for the link Deb, you cannot deny the video, The funnel runs parallel to the power lines...Took out 11 miles of the stuff...Guess the power co. does not have to cut the power to them lines huh?
I spoke with a gentleman today who lost his cabinet making shop twice due to fire. After the second fire the fire marshal found it started within the pipes of his central vacuum system he had hooked up to all his saws and tools for collecting excess sawdust.
He had tried to save a little money and went with standard Home Depot 2 inch pvc pipe as opposed to the recommended 2 inch od (outside diameter) pipe as recommended by building codes. The difference is the materials in standard PVC pipe are more likely to react with the cyclonic vacuum of the dust and create massive amounts of static electricity within the pipe creating sparks and then fire. 2 inch OD retards that.
With this in mind it poses some questions for me. Most tornadoes occur in the early evening hours due to temperature fluctuations at that time as well as other variables some yet to be recognized. Tornadoes in the early morning hours are rare. The one in Camille Ga. Several years ago was a rarity and as of yet has not been explained. Camille Ga is a southwestern Ga. Farming community, considering it was unusually warm that morning it is safe to assume the community was using more energy than usual preparing for farming operations as well as AC. Also, and this probably holds true for the Midwest, the fields were freshly cultivated in preparation for the growing season. Do certain types of dirt or dust generate more static electricity than others and under what weather conditions do they become more likely to do so? Do Monsanto and other chemical companies test their fertilizers and bug killers in a cyclone at high rates of speed to determine if they do as well? Should we somehow study and change our farming operations to retard conditions favorable to these storms? Should we zone in green zones or dunes of some sort on farmland to retard conditions necessary for these to form and travel great distances? Should we change zoning laws so as certain housing areas and there buildings do not actually increase the conditions favorable for a touchdown? During Katrina one of these tornado/storms came through, it touched down north of the power lines, took out some buildings and broke up soon after hitting the woods. Since that time the woods were clear-cut for the pine and ironically one of these funnels followed the same path, only where the woods had been before clear cutting, it increased strength before slamming the neighborhood.
Would dust and debris in a cyclone going two or three hundred miles an hour bouncing off power lines create more or less static electricity within the storm? Would this static electricity increase the storms strength or retard it? Should we put power lines around open fields or should we explore our options? Can we build a cyclonic condensation unit, which by its very nature produces more energy than it consumes or at the least run more efficient than what we have?
“IF there are columns of gas rising to the top of Saturn's atmosphere in columns,”
Rising from what surface? Source?
"Do Monsanto and other chemical companies test their fertilizers and bug killers in a cyclone at high rates of speed to determine if they do as well?" Did you leave out something JG? I don't understand the logic of this question at all.
"Should we zone in green zones or dunes of some sort on farmland to retard conditions necessary for these to form and travel great distances?" I think that is a great idea. Farming practices changed "overnight" to prevent another "dustbowl".
I think this is a great idea. Any land east of Tulsa will grow it's own forest if left uncut. If farmers quit cutting their fence lines, a natural wind barrier would exist. It would also have the benefit of adding so many more trees to the planet and give wildlife (birds, rabbits, etc.) a home. Also, think of how much gasoline or diesel fuel is wasted cutting fence lines.
"I don't understand the logic of this question at all."
Well, If certain types of soil are more likely to generate static electricity in a cyclone than others, it would stand to reason if you put a layer of chemical or fertilizer with the same abilities simply by it's elemental composition and multiply that by many square miles, you have the formula for a more severe storm if one ever happens along. We know they test the stuff for it's impact on the food chain and erosion as well as decay in the soil, but do they test it for when it becomes airborne during a storm mixing with other elements at high speeds being zapped by lightning all the while slammed against live power lines?
Does it increase storm strength or static electricity?
When they were testing hurricane prevention they weakened one (they think) by mixing some sort of high altitude chemical crystals...Stands to reason some chemicals would have the opposite effect...
Thought ya'll might find this interesting;
The Coming Era of the Tornado Swarm (It's Not the Heat, It's the Humidity) w/ Poll
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/30/6424/97767
Interesting article Cheryl, thanks.
Exactly! Thanx Cheryl!
"Moist air contains a tremendous amount of thermodynamic energy. The amount of energy required to convert liquid water into water vapor is roughly equivalent to the amount of energy contained in the same weight of TNT. That is, the energy required to turn 1 Kg of liquid water into water vapor, is roughly the same as the energy contained in 1Kg of TNT!"
We should develop and market a "Static electricity Cyclonic Energy Condensor" and market it to the big three...
I am sure there are some farming chemicals and even the area surrounding electrical power lines and water bodies where multiple small variations (dark energy) actually "feed" the storm or funnel due to either temp variations or "dewpoints" favorable to the storm body.
I used to landscape and manage a small plant nursery and remember the truck loads of dirt they brought in mixed with fertilizers and organics for the plants, we would cover the pile of dirt to prevent the rain from leeching all the fertilizers into the ground before we could use the dirt. When we came in in the cool mornings and uncovered the pile, the bottoms of the tarps were always wet from condensation and once we broke into the piles to begin operations the piles would steam from the tremendous heat. The girls doing the potting of plants generally had to take their jackets off as they worked over the dirt even when it was low 40s outside. Point is the fertilized dirt retained and gave off more heat than regular dirt due to the fertilizer mix.
Now multiply that by many square miles, kick it into the upper atmosphere and "mix" it with everything else going on up there and wah lah, recipe for disaster.
We know they test the stuff to see what it does when it does what it is supposed to in the ground, but do they test to see what it will do when it does what it was not intended to do and high in the atmosphere?
It's amazing how educational kos can be. There's a marine biologist with a regular feature. Another poster has a series on forgotten founding fathers.
John G, sounds like composting to me. I'm all for more composting. Richard probably knows more about this, but I think I've seen something about using composting cow manure as an energy source.
What kind of fertilizer was in your new potting soil?
I think Cheryl has it right: there was bacterial action going on in your piles of new soil. The piles of soil are reasonably well insulated, even more so, since you covered them. When bacteria feed, just like we do, they create heat.
In fact, there are three stages of bacterial action in a compost pile. One of them, "thermophylic" involves bacteria that can tolerate temperatures as high as 160-170F.
Nothing magical, just a whole lot of bacterial action in the soil. If the soil had added nitrogen, whether in organic form or not, that raised the C:N ratio encouraging rapid digestion of the organic portion of the soil. It's a good thing.
Wanner Family Dairy Farm Methane Project
The proposed anaerobic digester, to be complete by summer 2007, will produce approximately 2,000 kWh of electricity each day, more than 3 times the amount of electricity the farm currently uses.
Native Energy
Scroll down and the Wanner Project is about mid page.
I'm guessing based on recent front seat observations that is part of the puzzle. The inefficiency which is built in to trailers and some homes does not help either. It is amazing to me how one of the most powerful forces on earth is so easily influenced by the most minute details... I also believe forces within the earth’s surface are using trailer anchors and transmission towers to make the connection (antennas) needed between underground and atmospheric forces to connect dictating the path of a funnel once it forms. An in depth review of recent events all display a distinct pattern, especially when viewed from the air after one passes...
ooops, last post was in reference to trailer parks and their concentration of electrical usage...
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