Sunday, March 26, 2006

Yellow Thread

This is the yellow thread.


Marilynn M said...

Copied from Bob

A Yellow Dog Democrat is an unswerving party loyalist. The term comes from the 1928 presidential election, when Senator Tom Heflin of Alabama refused to support fellow Democrat Al Smith. Instead, Heflin chose to support Republican Herbert Hoover who would become president and lead the country into the abyss of the Great Depression. Many Alabamans disagreed with Heflin's choice and in retaliation popularized the line "I'd vote for a yellow dog if he ran on the Democratic ticket."

The label stuck and, for many of us who strongly oppose the ideology of the Republican party, it illustrates the lengths some Democrats will go to support our ticket. In short, a Yellow Dog would never vote for a Republican.

There has seldom been a time in our national dialog when the lines between party ideology have been so clearly defined. If you are a Democrat, it is imperative that you vote for candidates who share your values and beliefs and reject those who proudly join and support George W. Bush under the Republican banner.

deb said...

How right you are Marilynn. Thanks for sharing that info. Ned Lamont (that yellow dog;) is running against Lieberman (DINO...dem in name only) in Conneticutt. I *hope* he wins and donated a bit hoping it will help.

Wanted to share more on the Plame Affair. This is rather a crude blog posting, but there is some terrific info if you read to the end.

Joe Wilson SLAMS Scooter/Neocons: "Drive a Stake Through Their Hearts!"

dan said...

I wasn't familiar with Lieberman's opponant so I checked him out.

Who is Ned Lamont?"

dan said...

From the Joe Wilson speach:

George Orwell once said that "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." What I did was not extraordinary. It's the environment in which we act that makes this truth-telling event revolutionary.

Thanks Debbie. There was some real fire in that speech. I hope Wilson keeps talking and the press starts covering it.

dan said...

"..If you are a Democrat, it is imperative that you vote for candidates who share your values and beliefs.."
I agree there's time when party loyalty can go too far but I also recall when droves of main-stream Democrats abandoned George McGovern and helped elect R. Nixon and thus prolonged the Vietnam war. But I agree with Debbie in the Lieberman case.

Marilynn M said...

I sent twenty-five to Ned Lamont. I decided this year my little bit would go to individual candidates. I wrote Howard Dean and explained why I'm not giving to the DNC. I don't want Liberman to get one thin dime of my money. Personally if he gets the nomination I will vote for a decent Republican before I would vote for him. Liberman is a self serving SOB.

But, this time around we have to get some new Dems, or GWB is going to finish destroying the country.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

I guess you'd have to consider me a tiger striped Democrat. On the federal level I have to vote Democratic though I have been letting my federal Democrats know I do not like their wimpy behaviour in the face of current Republican atrocities.

On the state level I vote mixed. You would need to know a bit about Hawaii state politics, but in essense Democrats have been the sole party here since statehood in 1959 and that single party rule has of course led to all kinds of hanky panky and deal making at the expense of the states residents.

If you heard our Republican Governors State of the State address you might think she was a Democrat. Except for her cozying up to the Republican Party Machine for campaign financing I like her pretty well.

Now the rumour is she is a lesbian and she is jewish and haole and she got her political start on Molokai as the Maui County Council rep. for that distrct, one of the most rural and true Hawaiian in the state. One of Molokai's other claims to fame is the inordinate number of drag queens that come from such a small gene pool.

Hmmm, I think there may be a story in there some where.

Marilynn M said...

My thinking is sort of like that a rotton Democrat isn't much use. I try to vote Democrat, but I'm getting picky. I did not vote for Mondale because I didn't like Ferrero, and he resembled a parakeet. I didn't vote for President that year.

Good grief don't tell the Pope about your Governor. He's bound and determined to get rid of all gay Priests. Who is going to celebrate mass? I wasn't crazy about the last one, I dislike this mean spirited oaf.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

I had a conversation with a gay priest last Wednesday asking him what he planned to do. The attempt by the Vatican to pin the abuse scandal on gay men and look like they are taking some corrective action is not only immoral but it is going to cause the Church major harm.

He went on sabbatical to meditate on what he should do and for now I guess has decided to just lay low. He had already been reprimanded for being involved with a group in Phoenix, No Longer Silent. This is a man who has felt a calling to serve for the last 20 years and is now faced with giving up a career and being put out on the street jobless and penniless if he makes a fuss over the nonsense from the Vatican.

The new Popo is a major nellie Queen and many of the main Cardinals are all self loathing closeted gay men who can't even aknowledge the truth about themselves. The Church and Power come before morality and truth. They have much in common with the ideologues in the White House.

Marilynn M said...

My feelings exactly. I'm embarressed that they are so dishonest and hateful. I love mass, and I miss it. But I won't participate in what is going on now. I wonder who they thought would want to be priests? I'm a selective Catholic. I only follow that that common sense tells me is right. I don't think God is going to GET me for it either. Plus I don't believe he wants us to over populate the Earth.

Cheryl V said...

I was in school when Paul was pope. Vatican II and all the other moves to make substance more important than style. One of my teachers was a nun who was very open about wanting to become a priest.

John Paul II did some good things, such as opening the Church to the entire world. But he also set the Church back a century or so. Dogma became more important than substance. Some think that the type of priests he promoted to bishop created a lot of the scandal trouble. They were more interested in appearances than helping people. The new pope doesn't look too promising.

Cheryl V said...

Geov Parrish has a novel idea on how to protest the war posted on

This year, let's start with the following observation from a reader, sent in the wake of the reauthorization of the Patriot Act. He notes that "terrorism" is defined, in Webster's, as "the systematic use of terror, esp. as a means of coercion," and provides a long list of examples, past and present, where the U.S. government has done exactly that. He then notes that under the current Patriot Act, it is now illegal to provide money to organizations that practice terrorism, and therefore concludes that as a matter of national security he must refuse to pay his federal taxes.

I don't want to get into a fight with the IRS, but it could be interesting if they started getting requests to rule on this issue.

Cheryl V said...

Here's a great campaign slogan from a Democrat.

"It's wealth care, not health care"

That's what U.S. Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, said yesterday in response to the President's visit to Connecticut to promote health savings accounts.

We need to hear more of this.

dan said...

It's nice hearing from you Cheryl. I wish I had the courage to be a tax protester. It's painful to think that I'm helping to finance wire tapping, torture, global warming and lots of bloodshed.

I like that campaign slogan. It's better than the ones I found at this site.


Cheryl V said...

Thanks Dan,
I've been herding doctors. It's worse than herding cats. If you don't have blood spurting from somewhere, the only things they can say are "Take these pills", and "Don't worry, it's nothing". The internet is a godsend when you have to do your own medical research on non-specific symptoms.

deb said...

Hi Cheryl, Conspiracies abound these days, but there is a major problem in the US that is definately being covered-up. I have talked to someone in the FDA who KNOWS and has admitted to the cover-up. The problem is mold.

The cover-up exists because if doctors became aware of mold illness and made the connection from people's health and their environments it will cost a fortune. The pharmeceutical corporations also fight to keep the awareness of mold illness out of medical schools to the extent that doctors are taught that people who have multi-symptoms are psychologically unbalanced.

You may have already found some of these sites:

The Mold Source

The Best Toxic Mold

Mold Survivor


I have much more information. Please e-mail me if you want it.

dan said...

Cheryl, I'm very sorry to hear that you've been having health problems. In cases like yours with "non-specific" symptoms, I think doctors mainly shoo you away hoping the illness will go away on its own or will get much worse so the diagnosis is simpler. I hope you find a good doctor and that your health improves very soon.

Cheryl V said...

Thanks for the concern ya'll. It's beginning to look like low blood pressure, especially when standing. Orthostatic hypotension if you like doctor talk. They've pretty much ruled out all the terrible causes like brain tumor or heart trouble. My energy level has returned to almost normal. I just need to narrow it down more so that I know how to deal with it.

deb said...

Gen. Zinni: 'They've Screwed Up' Exerpt:

Retired General Anthony Zinni is one of the most respected and outspoken military leaders of the past two decades.

"There has been poor strategic thinking in this,” says Zinni. “There has been poor operational planning and execution on the ground. And to think that we are going to ‘stay the course,’ the course is headed over Niagara Falls. I think it's time to change course a little bit, or at least hold somebody responsible for putting you on this course. Because it's been a failure."

Judy B. said...

Cheryl..Hope you get to feeling better soon...
You are in my prayers...
Debbie may be on to something about the mold, but there can be many other causitive agents at work too..
Get your rest and drink plenty of water. They are finding that most people are really dehydrated and that causes LOTS of problems..
Take care of yourself...

deb said...

I didn't mean to imply that everything is due to mold, but I know that if someone is sick because of mold that it won't be found by our current medical system. A quick search on the net will show that people who got sick because of mold had to figure it out for themselves...which usually took them years and by then the problem had escalated to include other things due to an overstressed immune system.

It really is a major problem which affects susceptible people in many different ways, which is the reason that it hasn't been recognized easily. If the problem is due to a house the crawl space can be dried and ventilated and a hepa filter with ultra-violet light can be added to the HVAC system, to prevent re-exposure. But if the person is being contaminated at work or school it becomes difficult.

The person who has been exposed also needs to be treated to remove the toxins associated with the mold. Some people's bodies are incapable of removing these toxins, so they continue to float around in them causing serious illness. (search mycotoxins, neurotoxins)

I know a young family where the Mom developed MS and the kids just were sick all of the time. The Dad started having Parkinson type symptoms. After 2 years of going to doctors the Mom was reaching behind a chair to retrieve a toy...she put her hand on the wall behind the chair and her hand went through the sheetrock...the entire wall was filled with stachybotrys chartarum. A roof leak turned out to be the culprit. This family was exposed to huge amounts of spores, but smaller amounts of spores makes people sick with things such as fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue. There also seems to be a link with ADHD in children.

It is really sad that the FDA and Center for disease Control really do know about this and aren't speaking up. The knowledge is rather new, large amounts of research have occurred since babies in Ohio died of hemosiderosis in the mid 90's due to mold. The problem has to do with way too many buildings needing cleaned up, ergo the government is sacrificing people's health because the alternative would cost the government and rental house/building owners a lot of money. Of course the gov't also is in the business of trying to keep people from knowing about any toxins in the air, water, or environment. Which makes this another issue that needs to see the light of day.

I, therefore, will continue to work for transparency in gov't (sigh).

dan said...

Debbie, I had a personal experience with mold exposure at work about ten years ago. I got extremely ill and for months couldn't get any answers as to what the cause was. My doctor was baffled. It turned out that I was hypersensitive to aspergillis niger. A change in my work environment relieved the symptoms but not until the exposure caused some permanent lung damage. It was one of the more frustrating experiences of my life.

Judy B. said...

Mold is not only a serious health problem, it is a serious economic problem... so much so that insurance companies are now excluding any coverage for mold related problems.

One old, and workable, way to boost your immune system is to wear a "medicine bag" around your neck filled with dried eucalyptis, Works to prevent many upper respiratory problems.
I grow my own.

deb said...

Judy, I'm continually impressed with your skills. Are you Native American?

Would one wear the eucalyptis constantly?

Judy B. said...

Deb... No, I AM not Native American, at least in this lifetime. I do believe a lot like them tho, especially looking forward 7 generations when making decisions.

I read about the eucalyptis in an alternative health guide. Seems that is something that they do in Australia. Because I live in the country and do not seem to have too many opportunities to "catch" dis-eases, I seldom wear a medicine bag. I keep dried leaves in a container around the house. I do believe that it works.
I really recommend it for people who go out into the word...

Cheryl V said...

Smile for today. Check out the cartoon.

dan said...

Good one Cheryl.

dan said...

Has anyone seen this bumper-sticker?

"George W. -- We will be forever in his debt."

Cheryl V said...

That's one of the best bumper sticker's I've heard of, but I haven't seen it. Of course on the rare occasion that I do see any anti-W sticker, I feel like throwing a parade.

Cheryl V said...

How did FEMA manage to go from one of the most effective agencies in government, to so messed up that it needs to be scrapped? In only five years? Michael Brown couldn't have done it all by himself.

dan said...

Your right Cheryl, he had lots of help.

Richard Yarnell said...

It went to hell as soon as the Bush administration took office.

They were so pissed at Clinton that they dismantled some of the best stuff he'd come up with.

As soon as FEMA was relegated to a back burner, they failed to staff it with pros who had disaster experience. Then as soon as they had the chance, they removed it from the Whitehouse and put it under Home Securty.

It worked well under Clinton and his FEMA director James Witt, because when Witt called any agency in the government, any state agency for that matter, he was the voice of the President to whom he reported. Things could, and did, happen quickly.

I have a nagging memory that Carter was the first o come up with the model but FEMA became the crown jewel of Federal agencies under Clinton.


Cheryl V said...

As I remember it, one of the big reasons Daddy Bush lost his second term was FEMA fouls ups after a hurricane in Florida. Looks like Junior has found another way to outdo his father.

deb said...

This seemed to fit this thread. I wonder if we should e-mail w with the definition of "hypocrite"?

National Anthem Sung In Spanish At First Bush Inaugural

dan said...

Debbie, it looks like the news service reporting that story may be in error.

"UPDATE: Contemporaneous media accounts (see here for example) report that Secada was singing “America the Beautiful,” not the national anthem. The story from Cox News below, reporting that Secada sang the national anthem in Spanish, appears to be in error."

W is still a hypocrite. It's widely reported that the national anthem was sung in Spanish at many of his campaign appearences.

deb said...

I caught the error from reading posts on other blogs and came back to erase the post, but since you have responded, Dan, I will leave it. But, isn't it amazing that news in the blogosphere will correct itself in a matter of hours yet errors (even major ones) in our mainstream media haven't been identified for years?

Oh, and btw, I attended a primary victory party for my future Congress critter Heath Shuler this evening. All in all a very informative evening. I made copies of my "Restore the Fairness Doctrine" essay and gave it to people I felt might be beneficial in having the legislation enacted when Shuler gets to Congress.

dan said...

Debbie, congratulations to you and the whole campaign team on the primary victory of Heath Shuler. I'm impressed at how rapidly you're gaining access and influence in NC politics. Good work!

deb said...

Speaking of influencing our elected officials...did you play a part in this Richard?

Fair, logical tax plan takes on the rich and their lobbyists

Sounds very good to me:)

Richard Yarnell said...

It's hard to say. I've talked to him weveral times about finding a way to include "savings" income (that's the term of art for investment income) several times and we did discuss the "transaction tax" idea. He said he liked the idea but didn't think it could be passed. He thinks tax reform will be incremental - I suspect there are some things in this proposal that he's willing to sacrifice to reach a compromise.

The article is correct: he has an uncanny ear for tone and timing. His voice isn't, by the way, squeaky. It's reedy. Oregon leads the nation in electing less than photogenic legislators.

dan said...

Good work Richard, I'm sure your conversations had some influence. It's great to have some Bread Crust bloggers with some clout.

Cheryl V said...

From one of my favorite chicken sites:

"Bird Flu"

Do you know that 'bird flu' was discovered in Vietnam 9 years ago?

Do you know that barely 100 people have died in the whole world in
all that time?

Do you know that it was the Americans who alerted us to the efficacy of the human antiviral TAMIFLU as a preventative.
Do you know that TAMIFLU barely alleviates some symptoms of the
common flu?
Do you know that its efficacy against the common flu is questioned
by a great part of the scientific community?
Do you know that against a SUPPOSED mutant virus such as H5N1,
TAMIFLU barely alleviates the illness?
Do you know that to date Avian Flu affects birds only?
Do you know who markets TAMIFLU?
Do you know who bought the patent for TAMIFLU from ROCHE
Do you know who was the then president of GILEAD SCIENCES INC. and remains a major shareholder?

DONALD RUMSFELD, the present Secretary of Defence of the USA.
Do you know that the base of TAMIFLU is crushed aniseed?
Do you know who controls 90% of the world's production of this tree?
Do you know that sales of TAMIFLU were over $254 million in 2004 and
more than $1000 million in 2005?
Do you know how many more millions ROCHE can earn in the coming
months if the business of fear continues?
So the summary of the story is as follows:
Bush's friends decide that the medicine TAMIFLU is the solution for a pandemic that has not yet occurred and that has caused a hundred deaths worldwide in 9 years.
This medicine doesn't so much as cure the common flu.
In normal conditions the virus does not affect humans.
Rumsfeld sells the patent for TAMIFLU to ROCHE for which they pay him a fortune.
Roche acquires 90% of the global production of crushed aniseed, the
base for the antivirus.
The governments of the entire world threaten a pandemic and then buy industrial quantities of the product from Roche.
So we end up paying for medicine while Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush do
the business.

dan said...

Cheryl, maybe we have been duped.


dan said...

More on Tamiflu

deb said...

Its just another way for them to stuff their pockets at our grandchildren's expense:

U.S. outlines $7.1 billion flu pandemic plan

deb said...

Cheryl, I copied and pasted your post at another blog. I feel like sharing information is part of the reason that we all blog. Please correct me if I am assuming too much.

Do you have the link to the information? It is very good and I'd like to get it out all over the blogosphere. The best blogs want references.

Richard Yarnell said...

Regarding the flu:

There are lots of strains of "flu."

There is more than one strain of avian flu.

There's a good chance that the WWI pandemic started out as an avian flu that learned how to jump species and then to be transmitted from person to person.

The worry is that it will happen before we're ready.

You know that the conventional flu vaccines are re-formulated every year. Two reasons, one is that the flu to which humans are susceptible mutate. A second is that new strains are discovered, in the hot bed of fludom (someplace in China). A lot of educated guessing goes on, some fast formulation is done, and then the world starts producing the stuff.

Until avian flu jumps to humans, they can't formulate a vaccine even if it is a strain of flu that we can make a vaccine to immunize humans with.

Almost all flu vaccines use eggs in which to culture the components. Eggs are a poor medium when dealing with Avian strains.

Tamiflu has varying effects. But when they guess wrong on what virus to prepare for or if they run out of the most efficacious vaccine, Tamiflu has been effective in keeping the flu from becoming a killer.

There are some statements in that littany that are not true. Among them, avian flu has jumped to humans - rarely, but it has been done. So far it hasn't happened often and its usually been in situations where people are in very close contacts with infected birds.

But we know it's contagious among birds. As it travels from its locus, as it is doing now, there will be more opportunities for it to mutate and jump species. It will happen. And when it does, we'd better be prepared because there won't be much time. There wasn't back in WWI.

Cheryl V said...

I copied it from The poster said she had received it in an email. There's no mention of who compiled the facts together. Free free to pass it along.

As Dan said, there are news articles about how well Tamiflu works. I have seen other news reports about Rumsfeld making money on the panic. The rest of the facts can probably be verified.
The possibility of this virus mutating to become able to go from human to human is there, but not all that high. The few people that have caught it lived in very close contact with the chickens.

Exterminating all the chickens leads to an interesting dilemma, we use chicken eggs to grow flu vacines. If we use the latest panic to improve vaccines or hospital capacity, that would be good. If we neglect problems we know we have, not so good.

The article at puts the facts more in perspective. We might have an epidemic in the near future, and it might be bird flu, but we do have lots of healths problems right now.

deb said...

Who Owns the Rights on Tamiflu: Rumsfeld To Profit From Bird Flu Hoax

There are 3 articles on the page that support some of the information from the chicken blog.

I also bookmarked the seems as if the authors have been doing a good bit of research.

deb said...

and more...

New research, carried out by Retroscreen Virology has indicated that
Sambucol®, a patented formula, may fight the virulent Avian Flu virus. Results have been presented yesterday, Wednesday, in a press conference held in the Royal Society of Medicine, London. Speakers included Prof. Hannoun, Emeritus Professor at the Pasteur Institute and Dr. Mumcuoglu, developer of Sambucol®.

Laboratory trials held in a leading research institute, Retroscreen Virology
Ltd, associated with the University of London found Sambucol® to be at least
99% effective against the Avian Flu virus H5N1. Sambucol® was effective at
significantly neutralising the infectivity of the virus in cell cultures.

So why are we still counting on tamiflu?

dan said...


christin m p in massachusetts said...

I'm glad to know that all of you feel the same way I do about the pharmaceutical companies. They're another bunch of sociopaths who are only too happy to send the masses to early graves all in the name of their god Money. My favorite has always been good old E-Lie Lie-Lie Corporation

deb said...

That article is an eye opener Christin. Here is a link to the same article without the ?/typo.

Corporate profit...I suppose that's it in a nutshell. The US = the country where corporate profit rules. Life only counts when profits can be realized.

What ever happened to "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?"

deb said...

On another note:

I spent the weekend at a Democracy for America training. It was an intensive, info packed 2 day session to educate people on how to win elections. This next election, being an 'off' year election, will have a low turnout. And, unless dems who want a different gov't, get involved and encourage people to get to the polls, it might not happen.

Average Joe doesn't understand gov't, and the process. He may show up at the polls every 4 years to elect a new prez and believes that prez IS the power in gov't. He mostly believes what the media tells him and can possibly be swayed to change his vote walking into the voting place.

We can't be fooled by the 32% approval rate for w. Yes, people are wising up, but they are in areas where many people already knew (i.e. large metropolitan areas). In a recent poll in a county near me w's approval rate is still in the 70's. The way the gov't is set up a few people in rural states have the same amount of electoral votes as millions in densly populated states. So, Christopher's Dad's vote will carry more weight than hundreds of votes in NYC.

With dems it's the people connection. What HAS to be done is every person (who wants to see the House and Senate turn blue) needs to get involved. Minimal involvement would include finding out who their friends are that are unhappy with the current admin., then encouraging those friends to see if they are correctly registered to vote, and then making sure that those friends get to the polls. None of us like to be pesty, but unless the topic is approached frequently between now and Nov. that person may not get to the polls or they may change their tune because of the media. Of course, involvement can increase from there, to volunteering for a campaign, letter writing to newspapers and publications, etc.

Yeah, and it still is all about the money. The pugs have these huge corporate warchests and dems have individual contributions which vary from $5 to $200. People had more money in 04 than now. But, dems are going to need to beat the 04 donations. People in blue states need to donate to red state campaigns in order to turn Congress blue. We can dream of publicly financed elections, but right now it just ain't so and the candidates have to have the money in order to win.

***hint***Larry Kissell from NC 8 is an awesome dem. He's just a regular middle class guy who also happens to be very bright and believes that alt. energy is a health issue, a national security issue, an environemntal issue, and a way to provide jobs for Americans. ***hint***

As far as trying to change pug minds it isn't the goal of any campaign. While it may be the right thing or a noble thing it is a frustrating experience that takes more time that could be better used getting people (who think that their 1 vote really doesn't matter) registered and to the polls. An interesting example is that in 00 if one more dem had voted in every precinct in Fla. Gore would have won. They couldn't have even cheated enough to win. (And we'd have signed Kyoto, have an alt. energy plan in place, have a huge annual surplus and wouldn't be at war, btw)

I made some great connections and put forth some ideas (one national and 2 local) that might actually happen. I highly recommend the training. DFA They will be adding more training sites when/if money comes available.

dan said...

Debbie, I'd like to commend you on your activism and your growing influence on NC politics. Your energy level is impressive (simultaneously building a house and tearing down the GOP). You always inspire me to become more engaged. (I'll start by taking your hint)

deb said...

Thanks sooooo much Dan

~~~deb giving Dan a big internet~~~

deb said...

"Here is another candidate we can get behind. The one interesting statewide race is the battle for Wyoming's seat in the U.S. House of Representatives. Wyoming is one of seven sparsely-populated states which send only a single congressman to that chamber. Since 1942, with one exception, the state's Member-at-Large has been a Republican.

But Representative Barbara Cubin, first elected in 1994, now leads Democratic challenger Gary Trauner by only four percentage points, 47% to 43% and the GOP can hardly take her reelection for granted. This becomes one more contest to which the GOP may have to devote resources during an election year in which the party is proving especially vulnerable." (from a fellow blogger at another site)

Gary Trauner

This guy HAS to win...wouldn't that send a CLEAR/MANDATED message to dead-eye dick?

deb said...

Petition to Tell Congress To Assert Their Authority On Any Declaration Of War Against Iran

dan said...

Thanks for posting the petition Debbie. Maybe some nervous Rep. Congressmen will stop rubberstamping this Administration's every scheme.

deb said...

How about joining up with the John Birch Society?

John G. said...

Heh everybody...
Was ed (coral castle) not from this area?
Deb, when I read this I WAS fascinated...
What are the chances we have not found all the pyramids much less "THE BIG ONE"? penny for your thoughts?

VISOKO, Bosnia - Pyramid or publicity stunt? Archaeologists can't agree but for the people of Visoko, the debate is almost irrelevant: they believe there's a pyramid under the hill near their town and they are already cashing in.

Visoko is booming, boosted by a controversial dig that aims to prove that the nearby Visocica hill is a pyramid built 12,000 years ago by the ancestors of the Illyrians, said to be the first inhabitants of the Balkans.
Many archaeologists are sceptical but Semir Osmanagic, the Bosnian-born businessman who came up with the pyramid theory and who is the force behind the dig, is convinced he can prove it.

"As much as the idea of pyramids in Europe and particularly in Bosnia may seem incredible, we're convinced we'll succeed," U.S.-based Osmanagic told reporters.

Since the dig began in April, visitors have flocked to the top of Visoko's hill, some 30 km (18 miles) north of Sarajevo, making the ascent by car, motorbike and even horse-drawn coach.

On a sunny April day, lines of people clambered up the 700-metre (2,300-ft) hill while models from Sarajevo Fashion Week walked around the dig, waving paper Bosnian flags.

"We read about the pyramid on the Internet. It would be great that something so grand happens to Bosnia," said tourist Senada Wiitigen, who came to Bosnia from Germany on holiday.

Nearby, the manager of a food factory was flogging "Bosnian Sun Pyramid" pralines. Hawkers sold hastily printed T-shirts and brandy in pyramid-shaped bottles while craftsmen turned out pyramid souvenirs.

Pensioner Rasim Kilalic turned his weekend home near the dig into a cafe. "Please God, let them find a pyramid," he said, rushing to serve crowded tables.

But many established archaeologists believe the theory behind Visoko's mini-boom is nonsense.

"Even the slightest acquaintance with archaeology would tell anyone that the only things being built in Europe at that time were flimsy huts, and a lot of people were still living in caves or rock shelters," said Professor Anthony Harding, president of the European Association of Archaeologists.

"Even if we assume these people have the date wrong by several millennia, and they are actually nearer in date to the Egyptian pyramids, the idea that people in Bosnia at that time were building pyramids of any sort, let alone enormous ones that dwarf even the Great Pyramid at Giza, is pure fantasy."


Osmanagic calls the two hills forming a gate into the Visoko valley the Sun and Moon Pyramids, named after pyramids he saw in Central America. He named a smaller hill the Dragon Pyramid.

"Visocica hill has almost three perfect triangle sides, each pointing towards cardinal points," said Osmanagic, who often wears an Indiana Jones-style trilby hat.

"This and its pyramid shape were enough for me. Nature simply could not build such perfect objects."

Last year, during a dig at the base of Visocica hill -- Osmanagic's Sun Pyramid -- geologists on his team said they found polished sandstone slabs, which may have formed the pyramid's floor. They found another building material, also not native to the area, which they think was used for the stairs.

In the second week of digging, they found stone blocks that Osmanagic said were pyramid walls. Over the next few months, he aims to unearth what he believes are stone stairs and explore 3.8 km (2.4 miles) of tunnels that he says connect the hills.

Pyramid-shaped structures were built by many ancient peoples and used as temples, tombs or royal monuments. Some of the best preserved are Egypt's pyramids, built around 4,500 years ago. Step pyramids exist in Mexico and modern-day Iran and Iraq.

Greece and Egypt have said they will send experts to the Bosnian site in the coming months, but closer to home there are fears the ad-hoc dig could destroy the remains of a medieval Bosnian town at the top of Visocica hill.

"This is the equivalent of letting me, an archaeologist, perform surgery," said Enver Imamovic, professor of history and former director of the Sarajevo-based Regional Museum.


Osmanagic plans to open the "Bosnian Valley of Pyramids" as an archaeological park in 2008. His project is supported by Visoko council and has raised hopes that the area could become a major tourist attraction in a country slowly winning back visitors after a devastating war in the 1990s.

"We should absolutely allow the research here," said Senad Hodovic, the director of the Visoko Historic Heritage museum.

"This isn't about whether there are pyramids or not ... But it's important to create a climate for research, also of the medieval town of Visoki, which has never been explored."

Nearby mines and rescue associations have offered their services for the exploration of the tunnels. Universities in Sarajevo and Tuzla have pledged their expertise and firms in Visoko are donating products and services.

The volunteer diggers are mainly unemployed men from Visoko.

"We have such high unemployment that everybody hopes something good will come out of this," said Emsad Husic, a former car mechanic and father-of-three. "You can already feel the town has got livelier in the recent weeks."

Osmanagic believes the site was chosen in the belief that it was a focal point of energies, like Giza in Egypt. That, he says, could explain the local claim that no one was killed in the three-pyramid area during the 1992-95 war.

"The pyramid saved them," he said.

For now, Osmanagic is financing the dig himself. To continue his research this year, he will need some 200,000 Bosnian marka ($125,550), which he hopes to get from Bosnian authorities.

"The history of civilisation has to be rewritten," he said. "Bosnia will become a giant on the world archaeological map."

Judy B. said...

Debbie, i agree with you about changing Congress. It would be much easier and cheaper to do than elect the next President (although we must do that too).
If we are going to change threads again, I would like to see one named "Candidates" where you and the rest of us can list candidates that we think have a chance of taking out a republican. By naming them we can get on our own blogs and promote them.
My Dem Congressman will win easily and my money/support needs to bechannelled somewhere where it will count.
Are you familiar with Emily's List. It is a way to fund women candidates. It stands for Early Money Is Like Yeast, it makes the dough rise. In other words the earlier candidates get the money, the more money they are able to raise.

deb said...

HEY JG, it's always good to see you:)

I am intrigued by Osmanagic's theory. If indeed the triangular shaped hills line up with the solar system, I'm guessing (like Osmanagic) that they are manmade. I am wondering how he arrived on a date? 12,000 years ago earth was in a glacial period, so I doubt the time line.

If the structure is extremely old, then were the people "stone age" at the time? Native Americans built their mounds out of soil. Could they actually be excavating away the original pyramid?

I'm short on time right now, but I want to research it further, it might be several days before I can get back to it.

I have a theory that human's developed civilization prior to the last glacial period, based upon recent DNA evidence that Europeans were in the US 30,000 years ago. With the ice age came a regression of humans back to a cave man setting.

deb said...

Hi Judy, I hope that the strains in your life have eased up a bit with your Mom living in an assisted care facility.

I will be on the lookout for candidates that have a really good chance of winning. These candidates have been posted but they have an excellent chance as the poll numbers are close: Larry Kissell in NC 8, and I'm excited about Gary Trauner, in Wyo. So much so that I may end up in Wyo. this summer knocking on doors.

Another candidate that I believe really needs to win is Ned Lamont in CN. He is running against Joe Lieberman in the primary, which will take a lot of money, and then he will have to run against the republican. Joe Lieberman is adamantly for the war in Iraq and sides with w way too often. He's a DINO (democrat in name only) and Joe needs to Go. Lamont is an honest, progressive candidate.

So those are my three picks for the time being.

I have set aside an amount that I am using to make donations every month. I'm dreaming of publically funded elections, but until we get the right people to vote for them it's just not going to happen. If we don't have a say in the media it won't happen anyway, because the media will spin it as another democrat tax and spend policy. Even though we are the ones actually funding the corporate candidate warchests through our purchases.

dan said...

Mother's Day Proclamation, penned in Boston by Julia Ward Howe in 1870:

Arise, then, women of this day!
Arise all women who have hearts,
Whether your baptism be that of water or of tears
Say firmly:
"We will not have great questions decided by irrelevant agencies,
Our husbands shall not come to us reeking of carnage,
For caresses and applause.
Our sons shall not be taken from us to unlearn
All that we have been able to teach them of charity, mercy and patience.
We women of one country
Will be too tender of those of another country
To allow our sons to be trained to injure theirs.
From the bosom of the devastated earth a voice goes up with
Our own. It says, "Disarm, Disarm!"
The sword of murder is not the balance of justice!
Blood does not wipe out dishonor
Nor violence indicate possession.
As men have often forsaken the plow and the anvil at the summons of war.
Let women now leave all that may be left of home
For a great and earnest day of counsel.
Let them meet first, as women, to bewail and commemorate the dead.
Let them then solemnly take counsel with each other as to the means
Whereby the great human family can live in peace,
Each bearing after his own time the sacred impress, not of Caesar,
But of God.
In the name of womanhood and humanity, I earnestly ask
That a general congress of women without limit of nationality
May be appointed and held at some place deemed most convenient
And at the earliest period consistent with its objects
To promote the alliance of the different nationalities,
The amicable settlement of international questions.
The great and general interests of peace.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

I think our nation would be better off if we had a better balance of women to men in our actual Congress. I know some women are ruthless, and a lot of men are compassionate, but I do think as a rule women are more inclined to try to work things out without resorting to violence (again, the testosterone factor).

dan said...

Good point Christin. Look at the last 2 pres. elections. If males had been excluded from voting, G.W. Bush wouldn't have been elected (can you imagine how different the world would be?). In retrospect, perhaps male suffrage was a big mistake. Of course that's just an observation and not a proposal. I want to retain the right to vote for the women of my choice.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

I didn't know that Bush got a majority male vote; I thought there were roughly as many women conservatives as men. I was thinking more about the people who hold political offices, than about the voters. But I guess I should be just as concerned about the voters.

dan said...

Christin, I do agree that we'd be better off with more women in Congress. I only metioned the last two pres. ele. because the vote by gender was significantly different.

2000 Bush Gore
Men 53% 42%
Women 43% 55%

2004 Bush Kerry
Men 55% 44%
Women 48% 51%

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Just goes to show you how much I followed politics before this past winter when I started blogging with you guys at SSB. I knew things weren't good, but I didn't know what was at the root of it. I thought it was just the greed of this or that individual; I didn't know our whole system was so screwed up. I don't like being so untrusting, but now that I know, I still wouldn't want to go back to not knowing.

dan said...

BTW Christin, was your community spared the terrible New England flooding?

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Yes Dan, we were incredibly lucky. The hardest hit areas were those along the banks of the Merrimack River, about a half hour up to an hour-and-a-half north of here. All the tributaries fed into it, and it couldn't empty out into the Atlantic ocean fast enough.

deb said...

For JG

Light Travels Backward and Faster than Light

John G. said...

thanx...this is for you.

"Man is so made that when anything fires his soul, impossibilities vanish."
~ Jean De La Fontaine

"You will never possess what you are unwilling to pursue"
~ Mike Murdock

deb said...

Great quotes JG, and I hope and pray that my pursuit of truth in media will assist in making it happen. I do believe that most people are inclined to do the right things, if only they have the facts from which to decide.

As I repeatedly posted at SSB, all of the programs and issues that we have discussed need light shed upon them in order to happen.

Christin posted that through blogging she has gained the knowledge of the reality of our goal is transparency for everyone, even if they don't own a pc. If this one obstacle should vanish we would KNOW that the planet's inhabitants are all in it together and work out the problems.


John G. said...

"One area where such an advance could be enormously beneficial is in the telecommunications industry."

this is from the totally cool link you sent Deb...

Sounds like the beginning (only the beginning) of something revolutionary...

thank-you thank-you thank-you

"Question everything, especially Einstein"

John G. said...

A recent Discovery magazine article had an explanation as to some of the hurdles being encountered with a manned mission to mars. One of them was the impact cosmic rays would have on extended space flight. It is my understanding "cosmic rays" are a component of light. Would it not be possible to build a "stealth" ship for the journey? By that I mean make the skin of the craft emit it's own cosmic rays, "fight fire with fire" would the rays being emitted from the crafts skin not cancel out those naturally occurring in the universe? Effectively creating a cocoon for the ships occupants?
Thanx again for the link Deb, I have yet to read all the very interesting links connecting too it…

Richard Yarnell said...

Cosmic rays are not part of the electromagnetic spectrum. For the most part they are extremely energetic particles composed of bare nuclei.

The electromagnetic spectrum is most often illustrated as ranging from radio waves having wavelengths of 100km or more to Gamma rays with wave lengths on the order of 10^-6nm or less. Visible light falls in the narrow range of 400nm to 700nm.

If you're thinking of using "cosmic rays" as bullets to shoot at incoming solar, galactic and inter-galactic cosmic rays: we don't have the means to create what requires those structures (furnaces) to do naturally.


John G. said...

Realistic and informative as usual, Thank You, I do not tell you and others on this site how much your wisdom and input is appreciated, it is daily, and in ways history will celebrate. You guys/gals are shaping our countries future to one of optimism and opportunity a little at a time.

What I was thinking about was smart skin. The best way to describe is this example "Get a dollar bill wrap it tightly around your arm,take the lit end of a cigarette and apply it to the dollar, you will not burn. Loosen the dollar slightly, ouch!" The precise location of the craft between earth and mars will determine the level of gamma rays, ever changing. If I understand your reply correctly, the solution I am looking for with my question is possible, we just do not possess the correct sequences of necessary means, material and technological, to duplicate what the universe does naturally. Why duplicate when you can cancel it out, sort of like the dollar wrapped tightly around your arm, that space between the dollar and your arm is minute yet able to not burn, something that would happen without the dollar, change the space ever so slightly and ouch!
The precise location of the craft between earth and mars will determine the level of gamma rays, ever changing, we just need to find a way to measure cosmic rays and keep changing that space between the skin of the craft and the objects inside the cocoon, canceling out it's otherwise natural harmful effects. Thanx again.

John G. said...

Sorry about the deleted posts, I have been trying to give you a link to these sites which may be of interest. hope this works, let me know, Is Judy B. ok? She has not posted in a while...

John G. said...

Senator Clinton wants 50 billion for alternative energy research.
Elect her president and give it to her. Imagine if we get serious and develop clean, abundant, renewable(infinite) energy resources...

Make Fossilized and carbon fuels obsolete in the next twenty years.
Energy should be free. Imagine an energy grid structured like the internet. Corporations will give you the energy if you use their products. The geo political landscape would probably change as well.

Also I came across a previous post where you discussed mold. Moss grows on the north side of a tree, does mold grow on the north side of stuff as well?

I found an interesting product that states it addresses indoor mold in a unique way. If you have an opportunity check it out and tell me what you think. It reminds me of my lime light for the lil' guy IDEA.

It is a Guardian Air purifier.

Cheryl V said...

I agree that we desperately need to invest in alternative energy sources, but Senator Clinton is not the one to do it. I think she may have been a good person a long time ago, but somewhere along the way she decided that she liked money and power. Now she tries to walk both sides of the fence in a desperate attempt to appeal to everyone. Besides that, she is very pro-Iraq war.

Kerry was pushing alternative energy during his presidential bid. Gore is very big on the environment. The Democrates probably have dozens of good environmental choices available.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

The more I'm learning about politics and world affairs, the more I agree with those who see Al Gore as the best person (both qualified and honest) for the job of U.S. President. As for Hillary Clinton: Reading articles like the following one, has helped me to feel a little more at ease with the idea of Senator Clinton becoming U.S. President in 2008:

I know there are better candidates for that position than Hillary Clinton, but certainly there are worse choices too.

If the Bush Regime persists in being hell-bent on turning this country into the United Corporations of America -- as I've heard it called, the Republican Party in-fighting will continue to divide them. In that case, a Democrat will win that office in 2008.

Right now, the stakes are unusually high -- it's not just about economics this time. But by 2008, the War and Immigration Reform may have long since been removed from the equation, and alternative energy production may be well on the way to replacing oil. In that case, we could still end up trapped with Republicans dominating every branch of our government.

Getting back to Hillary Clinton: I know it's very early, but so far all the other potential Democratic presidential candidates -- except for Al Gore -- are trailing far behind her in the polls. If Al Gore doesn't run, and Senator Clinton does, she may end up having no competition to speak of.

Still, even if the best we get from her is mediocrity, it sure beats the hell out of what we've got now.

deb said...

"scientists announced they had measured blobs in blazar jets screaming through space at 99.9 percent of light-speed."

WOW JG, maybe matter could (and does) go faster than the speed of light. I mean if any of that matter were going a bit faster, then it wouldn't be able to be measured because it would be going back in time...I think that would be a sound statement...but correct me if I am wrong.

There are so many forms of radiation/energy from space. If we seriously started using solar panels in the nation, I believe that the technology would grow...and perhaps into ways to harness other forms of energy.

On Sen. Clinton:

I believe that any dem nominee would make alternative energy a priority.

I read "Living History" by H Clinton. It is a fabulous book.

Sen. Clinton has many good ideas for the country, yet she is less likely to make the sweeping changes in the corporate systems, that I wish for. However, I do not know of any potential candidate that would do this.

The problem that I see for the country if Clinton runs is that I am POSITIVE that people will turn out in droves to vote against her. The media has turned her into a horrible monster in so many people's opinion. I believe that the Rep. party is well aware of this and is helping to promote her candidacy.

Naturally I would do whatever I could to help get her elected if she wins the dem nomination. I am very much hoping that she does not.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Deb, if a miracle happened, and Al Gore were to have a change of heart and run for U.S. president again in 2008, do you think we would win this time?

dan said...

Hey Christin, I'm impressed at how quickly you're gaining knowledge about the issues and the political savvy your showing. Remember a while back when you said you're waiting to meet a great guy with "a heart of gold"? I'm guessing there are a few of them volunteering at your local Democratic headquarters. You'd fit in very well there.

I think Sen. Clinton would do a fine job as president. But I'm afraid that Debbie is right, she's been so demonized she may not be electable.

The important thing is that the country needs to be convinced that the the GOP is not fit to govern. There are signs that is begining to happen.

John G. said...

"scientists announced they had measured blobs in blazar jets screaming through space at 99.9 percent of light-speed."

"Light Beam Energy" at work :-)
That is the paragraph I wanted you to read!
I had a discussion with my father yesterday, it was like talking to Richard (good thing), He does not think it possible to travel through time(I DO) other than what we already do...He gave a physics lesson which made a lot of sense, but you know me, we agreed to disagree. Yet I must admit my father is very smart.
When I read that statement "99.9"
I thought about the other article "light travels faster backwards" and wondered what if we could achieve "warp" speed and then send out a pulse of light or matter to put us over the threshold even temporarily...would we travel time or just "look"...
Anyway thanx for the links and please keep sending them.
On Hillary. She was on the news again last night and gave a very
Interesting statement as to how the populous wants to research alternative energy when gas prices are up for a few months and then when fuel prices come down a little, forget about it. She's right. I believe many of the things that scare people from putting her in office would become irrelevant once elected. I must admit I did not vote for her hubby wild bill, yet I think he did a very good job once there, thanx in part to her. There are many things our country needs to do to cross the next technological barrier, electing a female would give them the guts and change the thought processes to allow that to happen.
It is time we looked over the next horizon and take a risk. "Last of the dogmen"

Thank-You Cheryl, Christine and Dan
I did not realize she was such a hot button issue...

Thanx again Deb, never a dull conversation...:-)

Judy B. said...

Oregon is making an attempt to do away with political parties. The following editorial makes an interesting read.

Richard, since you are a Democratic Party Insider, maybe you can shed more on this...

JG...I am still alive and kicking, just not much time to blog right now. I promise to get back to you on LBT sometime soon; in the meantime you are providing good reserch/

Cheryl V said...

Here we go again.

In the end, said one former official who has kept close tabs on the debate, "it came down to convincing Cheney and others that if we are going to confront Iran, we first have to check off the box" of trying talks.

The whole article is at

deb said...

This article is over a year old, but I like RJ's style.

two wolves and a spider

dan said...

Debbie, the article was interesting and RJ style is great but I'm confused. The topic seems fairly current, why do you think it's a year old?

deb said...

Oh, sorry...I liked the "Lieberman is too cozy with the pugs" too...but this is the one that I was tring to link...Two Wolves and a Spider

dan said...

Wow, that was well written! Definately a keeper. And Debbie was sly enough to create a little confusion for extra dramatic effect.

John G. said...
deb, judy, richard,...
I peeked and stumbled across this...interesting, very.

Richard Yarnell said...

Well, yes....

You don't actually increase the amount of light but you do aim the light that is dispersing out the "back" to the front where you want it.

Of course you use this scheme everyday you turn on a flashlight. Even better, because the shape of the reflector focuses the light into a relatively small beam.

I'm fond of using "work space" lights that concentrate light onto the areas in which I work: on kitchen counters, for example. I used to use small, 25 and 40 w incandescent reflector flood lamps that fit into a standard socket. I estimate that the effective light on the work area was equivalent of a lamp that pushed out 5 times as much light. Now they have high intensity flurescent lamps with reflectors that do the same thing. You can't put those on a circuit with a dimmer as you can the incandescent flood or spotlights (nothing quite as sexy as an incandescent spotlight dimmed to half or less - the light is a wonderful color), but they last longer and run cheaper.

By no means a new idea (even 17th century and earlier candle holders - the kind that hung on a wall - had brass or silver reflectors behind the flame to reflect light back into the room) but useful nonetheless.


deb said...

I used to work with kids who had special needs and their families.

Illumination is key for those kids who have limited vision. I had a brochure from the institute for the blind that gave good recommendations to improve the visability in a home. Simple things such as painting the walls a shade of white, medium colored floors (beige) and dark or bright furniture help children to better navigate their environment.

Tubular skylights use the reflective technology to bring light into the home and are recommended by the institute for maximizing illumination.

Found this while browsing and some of the info is new to me: Diffuse sky radiation

Richard Yarnell said...

I've been looking into using tubular skylights to put some sunlight in the north side rooms of my partially buried new house.

One of the problems is that the tubes can be up to 21" in diameter - that's a lot of area to devote to lighting when construction costs range up to $250/sq ft. Another problem is that, in my case, the roof, on which there will already be both PV and thermal collectors will be above a concrete slab that will form the ceiling of the living areas. Bedrooms will be another floor down. Since I will have photo-voltaic system, I may forgo the tubular skylights and be content with the light that will come from the large area of glazing on the south side.

As to the tubes themselves, some are better than others and they're all expensive. On the other hand, once they're in, there's no operating cost. (It would be important to keep the skylight dome very clean.)

Solatube is a reflective foil or mylar tube that is not rigid. As a result, the sides are not smooth. Since each "bounce" absorbes .3% of the light gathered at the skylight dome, it seems to me that a rigid reflective tube would be more efficient where installation allows it. I've had a hard time finding installed demos. Once I do, I'll report back.

As to the amount of light: it varies with a) the size of the tube; b) the length and quality of the tube; and the amount of "skylight." Under clouds, obviously, there won't be as much light. But the amount also varies with the position of the sun relative to the opening of the tube at the roof level.


John G. said...

Thanx again.
Your links lead to more links, give me something to do for a few more weeks, as I always said, Deb you will be key when the true merits of light beam technology are discovered.
Let me clarify what I found "interesting", not so much the IDEA as the anonymous response about what was behind the mirror.
The latest discover magazine has an interesting article showcasing a lady physicist, she believes although we live in a three dimensional world, mathematics tells most scientists there should be 10 dimensions. She makes some very interesting statements; some would even call her crazy (I'm in love...:-)
One has to wonder if there are not
Elements yet discovered which reflect light in such a way that what is behind them remains unseen with normal or even advanced sensing devices, take dark energy for example.
Yet they (elements, space, time) are still there...How do we "see" them? Take the children you helped, how did they perceive light?
I just recently through a Carl Sagan link you sent had an opportunity to see a photo of the now famous pale blue dot photo taken by a voyager craft from 4 billion miles away. Wow!
The light beam which runs vertically through the photo is obviously a lenses reflection, yet one has to wonder how that reflection changed the light before recording it on the film, also, what between the light source and the voyager lenses changed the light before it actually hit the lenses. We know that light changes in many forms as it passes through certain elements, seldom is it the same light from the origination point to the destination point. Light also activates certain viruses and other allergen laden organisms inside buildings. But what of the reflective elements which do not change light or allow it to pass through changing it's very "DNA". Yes the light is reflected off and intensified back where it came from, but what about behind the "mirror"? How do we make that glow? See it? Have I been incorrect in assuming light is present in all dimensions? Could other dimensions be reflective?
"Light travels faster backwards"
Thank you both for the continued conversation, we have yet to have that Eureka moment, but it's coming...

Ps. Deb, Hold a 7-ton boulder at a 45-degree angle and spin it fast as heck, the faster it spins the lighter it becomes. Why is that Richard? Did you know the boulders the Giza pyramid were constructed from had (perfect) holes in them drilled by some device we have yet to duplicate? hmmmm...

Thanx again for giving me a forum for thoughts, however convoluted they may be.

Richard Yarnell said...

Deb, if you can hold a 7 ton boulder, let alone spin it, let me know.

I can't imagine why spinning something, (at 45 deg to what?) would cause it to seem "lighter."

Where did you hear about it?

I did a google search on the holes you mentioned: there seems to be a heavy proportion of speculation without much backup fact.

I think the wonder of it is that we don't believe the Egyptians had anything harder than copper at the time. There are harder natural rocks, of course. I don't know whether there have been diamonds discovered in the tombs.

I will grant that copper is not hard enough to work on anything but limestone.


deb said...

WOW...I sort of feel like I've fallen down the rabbit hole.

JG...does the weight of the stone matter? Could I possibly spin a 7 ounce rock and achieve the same results? Perfect square? Drill a hole on a corner to the opposite corner and insert a rod? Put on a scale and spin? If the weight does appear to change is it because of centrifical force?

JG I am still with you in believing that previous civilizations had methods of working with rock that we have forgotten.

Richard, You mentioned diamonds...yes, the ancients placed great value in gemstones. Paintings show amulets with very large gemstones worn by the leaders. Are they purely jewelry or perhaps could be used to direct sunlight much as we can direct sunlight with a magnifying glass? Just a thought.

deb said...

Following along the same line of thought as to gemstones...we use lead crystal for our most sophisticated optical lenses. Lead is the element which blocks radiation. If lenses were made of crystals that didn't contain lead, I'm leaning toward a beginning stage theory that the beams produced would differ in substance than those produced through lead crystals.

We can make synthetic rubies and sapphires...have they been used in lasers?

John G. said...
Check out this site...

JG...does the weight of the stone matter?(no) Could I possibly spin a 7 ounce rock and achieve the same results?(yes) Perfect square?(no) Drill a hole on a corner to the opposite corner and insert a rod?(that was my theory,We used a cyclonic vacuum motor) Put on a scale and spin?(yes) If the weight does appear to change is it because of centrifical force?(probably, if so you answered my question)

I wish I could write as clearly as you. thanx again...

"I'm leaning toward a beginning stage theory that the beams produced would differ in substance than those produced through lead crystals.

We can make synthetic rubies and sapphires...have they been used in lasers? "

Well said, I was leaning the same way only I believe they used specific sequences and directions of elements...

Cheryl V said...

Here's where you can find out how your rep voted on giving himself a pay raise this week.

dan said...

I happened to catch Andy Rooney's commentary on 60 Minutes last night. Turns out that it was originally aired last fall but it was worth repeating.
Ike's warning

deb said...

I believe the the definition of curmudgeon is Andy Rooney.

Prior to the war I think that he was the only TV news/opinion person to speak out against going and not loose his job.

Richard Yarnell said...

For quite awhile, I used a quotation from a letter Ike wrote to brother Edgar on the same subject. It was longer and an even more stern warning that the one in Eisenhowers Jan 17th, 1961 farewell speech.

Here's another that may surprise you:

Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower in a letter to his brother Edgar, November 8, 1954

Richard Yarnell said...

Here's another:

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in
the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold
and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower, April 16th, 1953

dan said...

Thanks Richard, I hadn't seen that letter before. I'm not sure Eisenhower could have brought himself to vote for the current Republicans in the White House.

dan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.