Tuesday, January 31, 2006

The State of the Union

Post and discuss.

120 comments:

Marilynn M said...

This is my State of The Union Wish List.
We need a fast rail service system in this country. Airplanes are great if you have to be there now. Rails would offer an alternative.We need good public transit systems in all our major cities. With lines to rural areas. And connections to The fast rail lines.

We need alternative fuels. Since 9/11 I don't trust nuclear. Besides the waste is forever. We need solar power development, and wind farms on government land. This would not only generate power but revenue to pay down the National Debt.

We desperately need fuel efficient and hybrid vehicles. Small inexpensive electric town cars should be developed and eased into mandatory use for cities.

We need to get rid of the corporate farms. They are poisoning us and the areas they are in. The family farm was a better way to feed us, and a good way of life.

We have to make collage education available to all our children, or the rest of the world is going to pass us by.

We need to stay home and fix our own country and quit minding the rest of the worlds business, unless asked for help.

christin m p in massachusetts said...

Marilynn,
What did you think of Bush's State of the Union Address?

skids said...

The only surprise was that he didn't blither. They must have had him on a better course of anti-psychotics.

Hey, do I win the night-owl crown tonight, or are you still up?

deb said...

Hi Marilynn, you sent me an e-mail and I was unable to set it up correctly. I'm sure it's my pc incompetance. Could you e-mail me again? Do you mind sending me your e-mail address?

Judy B. said...

Marilyn, could we have threads on environment, climate/weather and one where we leave a message to you/Karen. Maybe that could include some rules of the blog. ie deleating comments.

Marilynn M said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Marilynn M said...

He gave a pretty good speech. Unfortunately the content sucked. Maybe instead of the ear piece and transmitter they have a direct wire to his brain? Did anyone else notice he is still trying to tie his war to 9/11?
Still after Social Security like a terrier dog on a bone.
Still doesn't want Homosexuals to have rights. God made them George. But, if he can't marry Karl Rove, no one else is gonna marry. Does anyone else wonder who the male prostitute was visiting on the one hundred times he visited the White House on days they didn't have a press conference?
He is still against using stem cells for research. Even though all those frozen embryos will be thrown away. He is sooo moral. I'm impressed.

Too bad he isn't against trampling on the constitution and our civil rights.
I'll tell you why they haven't got bin Laudin. If he was dead they couldn't use him to scare people. Besides the bin Laudins are Bush family friends. GWB used to be partners in business with a bin Laudin. GHWB was at lunch with a bin Laudin on 9/11. They flew all the bin Laudins out of the country during the no fly after 9/11.

He should be impeached.

Cheryl V said...

Did you hear about Cindy Sheehan being arrested for wearing a TShirt they didn't like? She was hauled off in handcuffs.

Along these lines:

according to Fox News:


A new provision tucked into the Patriot Act bill now before Congress would allow authorities to haul demonstrators at any "special event of national significance" away to jail on felony charges if they are caught breaching a security perimeter.

Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, sponsored the measure, which would extend the authority of the Secret Service to allow agents to arrest people who willingly or knowingly enter a restricted area at an event, even if the president or other official normally protected by the Secret Service isn't in attendance at the time.

Marilynn M said...

Yes, I heard about Cindy. If I were her I wouldn't have worn the shirt. Just being there and not applauding would have been more effective.

They keep slipping things like that in. With the "Patriot" act in full flower we are going to see dissenters start going missing. They will be shipped to guantanemo without any rights, "because they have to protect us. It's for our own good, don't ya know?" We better be afraid.

john Ashman said...

"Still after Social Security like a terrier dog on a bone."

That's one of the reasons I voted for him a second time.

"Still doesn't want Homosexuals to have rights. God made them George....He is still against using stem cells for research. Even though all those frozen embryos will be thrown away. He is sooo moral. I'm impressed. "

If Democrats would quit bickering about stupid things and making false accusations, they could probably press this point pretty hard and make some headway. But you get caught up calling him a "liar" when most people know that he really believed that Saddam was a threat. It's smarter to embarrass them than to make shrill, unfounded accusations.

"Too bad he isn't against trampling on the constitution and our civil rights."

I wouldn't use the "constitution" angle as ALL social spending is patently unconstitutional. I'll give up the Patriot Act if you'll give up social spending. Deal? As for civil rights, please explain how you have you been negatively by the search for terrorists.

"I'll tell you why they haven't got bin Laudin. If he was dead they couldn't use him to scare people. "

You really don't know much about the Middle East, do you? The actual reason is because of the difficult political landscape in Pakistan.

"Besides the bin Laudins are Bush family friends. GWB used to be partners in business with a bin Laudin. GHWB was at lunch with a bin Laudin on 9/11. They flew all the bin Laudins out of the country during the no fly after 9/11."

Actually, that is untrue. Which is why liberals are generally not taken seriously. I think Santa Claus was in on 9/11 too - http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flights.asp - I'll give you a clue that you probably can't comprehend. Osama is considered to be a criminal in his own country and would be tried and killed if he came back. He is trying to overthrow the government there and has been disowned by his family. Key Saudis were flown out after the ban was lifted in order to protect them from people like you who don't understand what's really going on.

"He should be impeached."

Your opinion, but there's no legal basis.

john Ashman said...

Cheryl, you're quoting a fair and balanced new source!!!

Of course, look, if you have an event in which there are Secret Service and people are trying to sneak into it by evading entry points, whether to cause logistical problems, a nuisance or to set off bombs or attempt an assassination, surely you'd expect that to be illegal, no?

skids said...

If anyone cares to actually get Cindy Sheehan's side of the story before making judgement calls about what she should or should not have done, her account of the incident is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x293434

Dan/Mi said...

Skids,

Thanks. Cindy Sheehan's account is very moving.

Marilynn M said...

Skids. please feel free. This blog belongs to all of us.

What Really Happened by Cindy Sheehan

Dear Friends,

As most of you have probably heard, I was arrested before the State of
the Union Address tonight.

I am speechless with fury at what happened and with grief over what we
have lost in our country.

There have been lies from the police and distortions by the press.
(Shocker) So this is what really happened:

This afternoon at the People's State of the Union Address in DC where I
was joined by Congresspersons Lynn Woolsey and John Conyers, Ann Wright,
Malik Rahim and John Cavanagh, Lynn brought me a ticket to the State of
the Union Address. At that time, I was wearing the shirt that said: 2245
Dead. How many more?

After the PSOTU press conference, I was having second thoughts about
going to the SOTU at the Capitol. I didn't feel comfortable going. I
knew George Bush would say things that would hurt me and anger me and I
knew that I couldn't disrupt the address because Lynn had given me the
ticket and I didn't want to be disruptive out of respect for her. I, in
fact, had given the ticket to John Bruhns who is in Iraq Veterans
Against the War. However, Lynn's office had already called the media and
everyone knew I was going to be there so I sucked it up and went.

I got the ticket back from John, and I met one of Congresswoman Barbara
Lee's staffers in the Longworth Congressional Office building and we
went to the Capitol via the underground tunnel. I went through security
once, then had to use the rest room and went through security again.

My ticket was in the 5th gallery, front row, fourth seat in. The person
who in a few minutes was to arrest me, helped me to my seat.

I had just sat down and I was warm from climbing 3 flights of stairs
back up from the bathroom so I unzipped my jacket. I turned to the right
to take my left arm out, when the same officer saw my shirt and yelled;
"Protester." He then ran over to me, hauled me out of my seat and
roughly (with my hands behind my back) shoved me up the stairs. I said
something like "I'm going, do you have to be so rough?" By the way, his
name is Mike Weight.

The officer ran with me to the elevators yelling at everyone to move out
of the way. When we got to the elevators, he cuffed me and took me
outside to await a squad car. On the way out, someone behind me said,
"That's Cindy Sheehan." At which point the officer who arrested me said:
"Take these steps slowly." I said, "You didn't care about being careful
when you were dragging me up the other steps." He said, "That's because
you were protesting." Wow, I get hauled out of the People's House
because I was, "Protesting."

I was never told that I couldn't wear that shirt into the Congress. I
was never asked to take it off or zip my jacket back up. If I had been
asked to do any of those things...I would have, and written about the
suppression of my freedom of speech later. I was immediately, and
roughly (I have the bruises and muscle spasms to prove it) hauled off
and arrested for "unlawful conduct."

After I had my personal items inventoried and my fingers printed, a nice
Sgt. came in and looked at my shirt and said, "2245, huh? I just got
back from there."

I told him that my son died there. That's when the enormity of my loss
hit me. I have lost my son. I have lost my First Amendment rights. I
have lost the country that I love. Where did America go? I started
crying in pain.

What did Casey die for? What did the 2244 other brave young Americans
die for? What are tens of thousands of them over there in harm's way for
still? For this? I can't even wear a shirt that has the number of troops
on it that George Bush and his arrogant and ignorant policies are
responsible for killing.

I wore the shirt to make a statement. The press knew I was going to be
there and I thought every once in awhile they would show me and I would
have the shirt on. I did not wear it to be disruptive, or I would have
unzipped my jacket during George's speech. If I had any idea what
happens to people who wear shirts that make the neocons uncomfortable
that I would be arrested...maybe I would have, but I didn't.

There have already been many wild stories out there.

I have some lawyers looking into filing a First Amendment lawsuit
against the government for what happened tonight. I will file it. It is
time to take our freedoms and our country back.

I don't want to live in a country that prohibits any person, whether
he/she has paid the ultimate price for that country, from wearing,
saying, writing, or telephoning any negative statements about the
government. That's why I am going to take my freedoms and liberties
back. That's why I am not going to let Bushco take anything else away
from me...or you.

I am so appreciative of the couple of hundred of protesters who came to
the jail while I was locked up to show their support....we have so much
potential for good...there is so much good in so many people.

Four hours and 2 jails after I was arrested, I was let out. Again, I am
so upset and sore it is hard to think straight.

Keep up the struggle...I promise you I will too.

Love and peace soon,
Cindy

Cheryl V said...

There was one other incident. Someone wore a Support the Troops shirt. She was asked to leave. She started arguing with the police because it's not protesting if you support the president. She was escorted out, but NOT arrested.

john Ashman said...

I'm sorry, but anyone who goes to the State of the Union address to make a statement rather than LISTEN is a really self-absorbed person with a desire to cause a scene. I feel bad that she lost her son, but she's just trying to spread around that pain. She had no inherent right to be there and certainly wearing such as shirt, concealed to get through security, was foolish. If she believed that it was the right thing to do and wasn't trying to make a scene, why did she conceal it?

If my son decides to be a truck driver and he gets killed on the road because he decided to drive trucks for a company, should I picket the company? Stand outside the president's house? Try to make his life miserable for giving my son a job? The fact is, if she had much popular support, she's lost most of it because people just can't identify with her. Her son's FATHER can't even identify with her. He thinks she's a self-absorbed you know what and wishes she'd shut up. I can only feel so much sympathy for the woman before her antics and attitude makes me feel nothing at all for her.

Marilynn M said...

John A. said "you get caught up calling him a "liar" when most people know that he really believed that Saddam was a threat."

Is it better to have a liar or an idiot?

john Ashman said...

"John A. said "you get caught up calling him a "liar" when most people know that he really believed that Saddam was a threat."

"Is it better to have a liar or an idiot?"

I don't believe he's either. You can be extremely brilliant and misinformed. If you knew the intelligence and observed Saddam's behavior, there was only one logical conclusion - he had WMDs. Shall I make a list for you of the other "idiots" that thought Saddam had WMDs?

BTW, you or someone mentioned that the senate didn't get *all* the intelligence. Well, that extra intelligence was reviewed and the conclusion was that it was *more* damning of Saddam, not less. But that much of it wasn't really vetted sufficiently to be of use, so it wasn't included. All that stuff did was make for a stronger case, not a weaker one.

Anon said...

As much as I find the whole issue of us going to war in the first place to be upsetting, it does not come close to how I feel about what happened afterwards.

ANYONE who understands history, other cultures, the middle east, the people and who have visited/lived there.. could have told anyone exactly what would happen after we invaded.

I have been so spot on with my prediction that I am stunned that I have not won the lottery yet.

Marilynn M said...

John, you are wrong. The Senate got only what Bush wanted them to get. They didn't get any of the reports he didn't want them to see. He couldn't wait for the inspectors on the ground because he was afraid they wouldn't find any WMD. And they did not. They even went so far as to draw pictures of mobile labs, that did not exist. This was his Pearl Harbor and he was not about to fool around and let anyone mess it up for him. Saddam fired thirteen missiles. He knew they wanted him. If he had more he would have fired them. He expected to die why would he care if Iraq ended up as a pot hole? Go find the Project for the New World Order. It was written long before 9/11. They divide up the Iraq oil fields in it. Bush's buddies are the planners.

john Ashman said...

Marilynn, no, I'm not wrong. The Senate Intelligence Committee got everything it needed to know and the rest was fluff - icing on the cake, but not very "strong" icing. Not stuff that was hidden to make it easier to invade.

Please explain why Bill Clinton and Al Gore, who had all the data, thought that Saddam had WMDs. Were they in cahoots with Bush to invade Iraq? What about the leaders of other countries who felt Saddam had WMDs still, but didn't want to invade? Was it part of a clever plot to aid Bush invade? Because that, in essence, is what you're saying.

Marilynn M said...

John, Why didn't Bush wait for the inspectors on the ground to finish?

Why didn't Bush go back to the UN like he promised he would?

Why did so many other countries refuse to participate?

Have you read The New World Order yet?

Anonymous said...

Cindy is the same woman who lost her son in the war; the same son she gave up in her divorce when he was 7 years old.

And, by the way, if you wonder why she has so much free time; she is going through another divorce right now . And guess what? Cindy is giving up custody of another son.

As Forest Gump once wisely proclaimed, "Stupid is as stupid does."

john Ashman said...

"John, Why didn't Bush wait for the inspectors on the ground to finish?"

12 years wasn't enough? Reports coming back that Saddam was still blocking activity?

"Why didn't Bush go back to the UN like he promised he would? "

Uh, he did.

"Why did so many other countries refuse to participate?"

Because they had back alley deals with Saddam that they didn't want to have exposed.

"Have you read The New World Order yet?"

I've seen bits of it, why?

Anon said...

"Why didn't Bush go back to the UN like he promised he would? "

Uh, he did.


Yes he did.. then when it looked like he would lose the vote, he pulled the resolution.. so he did, but he didn't.

john Ashman said...

True, but you know another thing that was going on is this. Bush was a true believer that Saddam had WMD. He knew that if Saddam could convince the UN to lift sanctions, the game was up and Saddam could go right back to anthrax research, chemical, nuclear stuff with no one looking over his shoulder. Hell, France and Russia would have stopped with the back alley stuff and gone full bore in trade for oil. Bush was afraid of that. So, yeah, he had a hair trigger, but it was understandable. Unless you are deluded enough to think he made it up because he loves blowing up stuff. He saw a *real* danger brewing and he was insistent that it was either dealt with properly or dealt with violently, but dealt with. Iraq was a steaming pile left on the White House floor by his wussy dad and he meant to clean it up, one way or the other. But I do think he would have been okay with *full* and legitimate cooperation by Saddam. Look how Qaddafi turned over a new leaf and cooperated fully and you don't hear about Libya anymore, do you?

Marilynn M said...

John, I'm sorry you just don't have enough accurate information to bother with. Don't you research anything? Go read The New World Order written years ago. Maybe then you will understand a little of what actually happened.

john Ashman said...

I assume you're speaking of the Trilateral Commission - http://www.trilateral.org/

It's an international think tank dedicated to peace and prosperity. And making money, of course. What of it?

john Ashman said...

I just read on Fox that the DC police chief apologized to Sheehan for the incident (they were at fault, not the Secret Service which is a bit smarter than that). Yes, they went overboard, but yes, it was stupid of her to wear that shirt. She wanted the incident to happen, don't let her fool you with her "woe is me" BS. I'm pretty darn sure she wasn't there for the scintillating oration.

deb said...

Marilynn, I think you might be talking about the Project for a New American Century. They've changed the mission statement. It used to read that they wanted to spread American business throughout the world. It used to say "using the American military"

Started in the 90's here are the members:

(read them carefully these are the people running our gov't)

William Kristol, Chairman
Robert Kagan
Bruce P. Jackson
Mark Gerson
Randy Scheunemann
Ellen Bork
Gary Schmitt
Thomas Donnelly
Reuel Marc Gerecht (Director of the Middle East Initiative)
Timothy Lehmann
Michael Goldfarb
Elliott Abrams
Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter
Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama
Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad
I. Lewis Libby
Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle
Peter W. Rodman
Stephen P. Rosen
Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld
Vin Weber
George Weigel
Paul Wolfowitz

deb said...

website

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Marilynn M said...

Yes, Debbie, you're right. I was too lazy to look it up. I have new DSL and I haven't moved my stuff over from my other ISP.

Marilynn M said...

From the Washington Post:
According to oil industry executives and confidential United Nations records, however, Halliburton held stakes in two firms that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer of the Dallas-based company.

Two former senior executives of the Halliburton subsidiaries say that, as far as they knew, there was no policy against doing business with Iraq. One of the executives also says that although he never spoke directly to Cheney about the Iraqi contracts, he is certain Cheney knew about them.

Sounds to me like Cheney Lied.

Marilynn M said...

Bush & Bin Laden - George W. Bush Had Ties to Billionaire bin Laden Brood

The unexplained death of Salem, Osama bin Laden's oldest brother, in 1988, brought to an abrupt end a long and intriguing relationship between President Bush and the head of the bin Laden family fortune.

The world now associates the bin Laden name with Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect be hind the terror atrocities of Sept. 11. As President George W. Bush leads an intense international manhunt for Osama, few Americans realize that Osama's eldest brother, Salem, was one of Bush's first business partners.

Osama embraced Islamic fundamentalism and is now the world's most wanted man. "Salem went on to become a business partner of the man who is leading the hunt for his brother," the Daily Mail's Peter Allen said. "In the 1970s, he and George W. Bush were founders of the Arbusto Energy oil company in Mr. Bush's home state of Texas."

President Bush and the bin Laden family have been connected through dubious business deals since 1977, when Salem, the head of the bin Laden family business, one of the biggest construction companies in the world, invested in Bush's start-up oil company, Arbusto Energy, Inc.

James R. Bath, a friend and neighbor, was used to funnel money from Osama bin Laden's brother, Salem bin Laden, to set up George W. Bush in the oil business, according to The Wall Street Journal and other reputable sources.

Through a tangled web of Saudi multi-millionaires, Texas oilmen, and the infamous Bank of Credit and Commerce International, Bush was financially linked with the bin Laden family until Salem met an untimely end in a freak flying accident near San Antonio in 1988.

The infamous BCCI was shut down in 1991 with some $10 billion in losses.

In June 1977, George W. Bush formed his own oil drilling company, Arbusto Energy, in Midland, Tex.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/
10_07_01/Bush___Bin_Laden_-_
George_W__B/bush___bin_laden_-_
george_w__b.html

Marilynn M said...

Hey Anon, I think you have your information sort of wrong.

Sheehan lived with her husband and four children (Casey was the oldest) in Norwalk, California before moving to Vacaville, California in 1983. While in Norwalk, the family was active in the Roman Catholic church in Norwalk. In Vacaville, Cindy Sheehan has been a youth minister at St. Mary's Church [42]]

After being married for 28 years, Sheehan's husband, Patrick Thomas Sheehan (Casey's father), filed for divorce on August 12, 2005. Although Patrick Sheehan has not spoken publicly about his beliefs or the reason for the divorce, according to Cindy, her husband "[did]n't support [her] activities, although he knows the war is a lie". Patrick and Cindy were high school sweethearts. [43]

deb said...

Thanks for the info Marilynn.

I have been busy working toward taking back more seats in Congress.

You have a great Congresswoman in the Dallas area running for reelection. I'm sure they are looking for volunteers...

http://www.house.gov/ebjohnson/

Karen M said...

T-shirt ejections were mistake, Capitol police say

Two t-shirts, two opposite sides of the debate. One arrest.

Some overzealous officer probably thought that it would be best to arrest Sheehan.

john Ashman said...

Anon was thinking of the Kesterson family.

john Ashman said...

Marilynn, yes, I guess back in the 1980s, it might have been hard to guess that one of them would kill a bunch of Americans over a dozen years later. Bush should have seen the future and then not done business with anyone related to him. BTW, do you have *any* idea how huge the bin Laden family is? They've all disowned him. You can't put the actions of one person on the entire family. It's not like you can stop someone from murder just because you're related.

john Ashman said...

"One of the executives also says that although he never spoke directly to Cheney about the Iraqi contracts, he is certain Cheney knew about them.

Sounds to me like Cheney Lied."

Someone knew someone who knew somebody that heard that...........

Why get actual facts when you can draw on speculation and hearsay?

And yet you people couldn't draw a line between a dozen accusations of sexual misconduct, subpoena'd "lost" billing records that just "show up" on a coffee, and a bunch of other shenanigans.

Cheryl V said...

from DemocracyNow.org:

Bush Administration Says Mideast Oil Pledge “Purely an Example”

Just one day after President Bush drew headlines for pledging to reduce the country’s reliance on Middle Eastern oil by 75 percent by the year 2025, two top administration officials said Bush’s promise was not meant literally. In a conference call with reporters, Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman told reporters the President was giving “purely an example” when he spoke about making dependency on Middle Eastern oil “a thing of the past." Bodman, speaking alongside Presidential adviser Dan Bartlett, said President Bush really meant that alternative energy could take the place of the amount oil the US is expected to import from the Middle East in 2025. An administration official told Knight Ridder the President used the words “the Middle East” only so he could illustrate the issue in way that "every American sitting out there listening to the speech understands."

Dan/MI said...

Debbie,
Thank you for bringing New American Century to our attention. Since their mission statement is long, as a service to our blog, I've summerized it. In so doing, I've taken some liberties since the process is subjective.

Mission statement:
As a result of massive military spending and great resolve, America has ended the Soviet Union's quest for world domination. Some of our political leaders feel this presents an opportunity to divert some spending towards long neglected domestic concerns. It's our opinion that such leaders are short sighted,misguided,spineless wimps.We should sieze the opportunity to use our military power to make the world a friendlier place for corporate america. With that in mind we resolve:

* To get elected, with the assistence of corporite media, a tough-talking, straght-shooting president who can be counted on to carry out our mission.

* To have our President demonstrate America's willingness to use its military might by choosing a weak country, controlled by a ruthless dictator, to over-throw and occupy.

* To have our President clearly state tat that it is our inherient right, as the worlds only super-power, to subject any other unfriendly country to the same fate.

* Any leaders objecting to this policy will be portrayed by us and the corporate media as "cut and run" unpatriotic, wimps.

* To avoid an uproar by the public over these ventures, we'll do them all on credit. Although this will result in a massive national debt, it will provide an excuse to achieving our other goal of finally eliminating all social programs.

* May God bless our noble cause.

Marilynn M said...

Thank you Dan. That is exactly what they are doing right now.

Marilynn M said...

Does anyone want to claim he isn't an idiot again?

Bush Concerned About “Human-Animal Hybrids”
My buddy Mox, at the inimitable "http://www.moxiegrrrl.com/2006/01/human-animal-hybrids.html", checks in with her thoughts about the president’s speech last night and thought the same thing I did: Human-animal hybrids? This warranted inclusion in Bush's most important speech of the year?

“I have to say I have never been prouder of the President of the United States than I have been tonight,” writes Mox last night. “This is a tough, but serious issue, people! We cannot stand idly by whilst mad scientists breed such abominations! These creatures of death and evil will only escape from their creators and breed new and more frightening creatures beyond our most horrific nightmares!”

http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/

Cheryl V said...

The human-animal hybrid was my favorite part of the speech.

The Daily Show has already had fun with it. I'm sure other comedians will too.

Dan/Mi said...

For those of you who didn't enjoy (or couldn't watch) the President's State of the Union address, I stumbled on a shorter and I promise, funnier version.
http://www.
ebaumsworld.com/presaddress2.shtml

john Ashman said...

Uh, guys, they're talking about and/or doing human/animal DNA splicing. It sounds weird, like he's talking about some sort of Island of Dr Moreau thing, but they're really talking about transferring key parts of human DNA into animal genes for testing purposes. Not exactly SOTU material and probably confusing for most people, but, oh well. He has one of those every year.

deb said...

Dan: Thanks for the mission statement and link. I enjoyed the laugh:)

Cheryl: I'm sure the Saudi's feel better knowing Bush was only *kidding* to placate his peasants.

Marilynn: That was too funny!!!

Marilynn M said...

I wonder if we will end up stuffing switch grass and wood chips in our fuel tanks? I know this for sure he wasn't getting feed from his transmitter this time.

deb said...

My problem is that he asked for 10 million, which will be cut at least in half by Congress and then a good portion will line some friends pockets so we are going to persue alternative energy on what? Just imagine if we spent the next 100 billion (that we are going to spend on the war) to get us out of the oil age!!!

Marilynn M said...

He's not going to do any of it. They are Oil. Iraq oil isn't because we are running low. It's about their greed. There is oil there and they think they should profit from it.

john Ashman said...

"He's not going to do any of it. They are Oil. Iraq oil isn't because we are running low. It's about their greed. There is oil there and they think they should profit from it."

As opposed to millionaire liberal politicians who want to profit from social programs? I can't believe you guys even listen to the second word from someone worth $30M. But then, most of you don't understand the meaning of the word "hypocrisy".

Marilynn M said...

Kerry wanted to get welfare?

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

I have been reading this guys blog for a while. He has excellent analysis of the continuous extra-legal manuevers of the Bush White House from a lawyers perspective. He has written about the torture, Plame and now the NSA spy stuff. I would love to see John A. go argue with him!

Anonymous Liberal

john Ashman said...

Chris, pretty weak, illogical stuff IMO. If he thinks his arguments are so strong, take it to court and get the courts to solve it. Every lawyer/judge I've seen backs up the legality of it.

Here's a thought (I'm not a lawyer, but know a little bit)) - if you tap someone's phone, you get to hear everyone he calls, even if they're not subject to the wire tap. So, if you're tapping a suspected terrorist's calls from outside the US and he calls the US or someone calls him, it's intercepted, just like any wire tap. That alone should torpedo the whole argument, but so would other legal aspects from what I've heard so far.

john Ashman said...

"Kerry wanted to get welfare?"

Uber-rich Democrats claiming to be "men of the people" or "empathizing with the poor". Notice how Kerry torpedoed a windmill project that would have impacted his view from one of his palatial getaways - "not in my backyard".

Cheryl V said...

John, get your facts straight. Kennedy is the one against the windmills.

deb said...

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/wilkerson.html

"Lawrence Wilkerson, Colin Powell's chief of staff, admits that he and Secretary Powell unknowingly performed a hoax on the American people and the world via the UN security council.


The man who helped compile the information with Colin Powell and the CIA, justifying the invasion of Iraq is now telling America there was no intelligence failure, that Colin Powell's integrity was sacrificed to give the information more credibility.

Americans will also realize who's really running the country. A hint: It ain't George."

Posted by DeDeaux http://www.democrats.org/blog.html

Dan/Mi said...

Christopher,
You do provide some teriffic links...I love the Bertrand Russell Quote cited in the Anonymous Liberal.

The Anonymous Liberal
"The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." -Bertrand Russell

deb said...

"A man (and the same thing may be said of a people) may pro­cure the means of existence in two ways,—by creating them, or by stealing them." by French economist Bastiat circa 1850

http://www.mises.org/story/1992

Dan/Mi said...

Deb,
Bastiat wrote quie an essay...lengthy but well worth reading and pondering.

"This essay by the great French economist Bastiat is reprinted as a reminder of the dangers to all sides of using military force as a means of securing resources or to bring freedom to foreign peoples."

Judy B. said...

Trying to catch up with all your posts and all your links takes so much time, but some are sooo worth it, that i haven't joined in the conversation...
Keep it up.. if not here on other threads..

john Ashman said...

Sorry, Cheryl. I do believe Kerry did have his hand in this wind farm idea, but hey, it's hard to tell Kerry from Kennedy sometimes. About the only thing there is to tell them apart is that one marries rich women and the other gets them killed.

john Ashman said...

"The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." -Bertrand Russell

I don't think this guy has ever even met a liberal. Virtually every liberal I've ever met clung to their misinformed beliefs like the Pope clings to a virgin birth.

Dan/Mi said...

John,
You seem to be presuming that liberals just blindly cling to their views. Have you considered the possibility that they've examined the same infomation you have, and reached a different conclusion?

Anonymous said...

John, have you ever considered that you do the very thing that that you accuse others of doing?

deb said...

If anybody wants to know who "they" are:

Neocon Machine

Marilynn M said...

You have to organize if you want to rule the world. So we better organize to stop them.

I found this on their Agenda page.

12:00 Book Signing (Exhibit Hall)
John Fund, Stealing Elections
Rep. J.D. Hayworth, Whatever it Takes

We better get a little of that, or the antidote.

dan said...

Deb, "THEY"

Can you imagine listening to that group for a three day conference?
Maybe thats how they refine their torture techniques.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

I posted a new piece of Art that would make a good poster for this conference.

dan said...

Christopher,

I just took a look at your poster. I'm no art critic, but I think I detected a hint of disrespect for our fine President.

deb said...

I wasn't sure where to put this link as it falls into so many catagories. Judy e-mailed it to me to post, but it is quite long. It is also worth the read.

The Proposed Iranian Oil Bourse

dan said...

Deb,Judy,
That link was a fasinating read. I did a search of "oil bourse" and found that the impact of the Iranian oil bourse is taken quite seriously. It's a factor in U.S. policy towards Iran that I was totally unaware of.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Holy crap it's an oil bourse! Where and how I do not recall but this is not the first time I have heard that one of the reasons for the war was to prevent the euro being used for oil payments. That was the most extensive article I have seen on the subject.

March 2006 is only one month away and with all this Iran nuke talk I quess we should not be surprised if a really big explosion occurs in Iran. I just hope that my friend Denise gets back from Iraq and gets her retirement from the army before that happens.

If this causes a depression I need to hurry up and finish paying off my credit card debt. If it causes hyperinflation then I should start charging things now? Maybe not they will just jack up the interest rates big time. I'll stick with my get out of credit card debt NOW plan!

Judy B. said...

Christipher
Maybe you should charge to the hilt cuz no one is going to want our money ....
At least you can have a garage full of things...

deb said...

MIT Center for International Studies:

MITCIS

MITCIS articles avaiable at alternet:

Policy papers from MIT's Center for International Studies

It's material from scientists perspectives. I bookmarked the sites, it will take quite a while to go through it.

deb said...

The Democratic Agenda:

"A Clear Agenda: Working with other party leaders, we have created and begun to communicate a clear agenda for change:

Honest Leadership and Open Government -- We will end the Republican culture of corruption and restore a sense of responsibility to elected office, and we will pass fundamental reforms that make government more honest, open, and accountable to the American people than ever before.
Real Security -- We will protect Americans at home by getting serious about homeland security, and address the real threats abroad by capturing or killing Osama bin Laden and focusing on actual (not imagined) nuclear proliferation. We will be prepared for the threats of tomorrow, and we will always tell the truth to our troops and the American people.

Jobs in America that will Stay in America -- We will keep good jobs from leaving and ensure that every job in America is a fair deal. We will balance the budget, ensure that the tax code is simple and fair, and create jobs by making America energy independent.

A Strong Public Education System -- We will strengthen our nation’s public schools to restore opportunity and optimism for every American.

A Health Care System that Works for Everyone -- We will join every other industrialized country by making sure everyone has access to affordable health care. We will change a corrupt, inefficient system into one that makes sure the world’s wealthiest country is also the healthiest."

For more of the report go to the DNC *blog* and scroll down if necessary to the Feb. 13 Annual Report to the Grassroots thread.

dan said...

Deb,
Very encouraging stuff...and the makings of a platform I could be excited about.

Cheryl V said...

Excellent platform. Now they just need to shout it until they are heard.

deb said...

I found an interesting bit of info. Wikipedia had this first paragraph a few weeks back, but now it has been changed to the second paragraph.

"An anonymous star was added to the wall between named stars that can be dated to deaths on February 5, 2003 and October 25, 2003. The anonymous star thus fits the timing of the Plame leak. Wayne Madsen, a reporter and former NSA employee, has claimed, "CIA sources report that at least one anonymous star placed on the CIA's Wall of Honor at its Langley, Virginia headquarters is a clandestine agent who was executed in a hostile foreign nation as a direct result of the White House leak."


"A possibility has been raised by several sources that a death may have occurred as a result of this leak. Under the Espionage Act, this could lead to a death penalty case. The CIA Wall of Honor has stars representing agents killed on duty. Named stars are used where information is not classified, and anonymous stars are used when the agent's name cannot be released. Below the stars is a chronological Book of Honor. An anonymous star was added to the wall between named stars that can be dated to deaths on February 5, 2003 and October 25, 2003. The anonymous star thus fits the timing of the Plame leak."

To read the entire article...very good BTW:

Plame affair

dan said...

Deb,
"Plame affair"

You have a knack for digging up interesting stories. This one might take years to play out.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

It has already been years since this story first happened. Novaks article was in July 2003. It just came out a few days ago that Scooter testified under oath that he was directed by Cheny to release the info about Plame.

What galls me the most is that our government is so disconnected from the rule of law and so controlled by powerful money interests that corrective action can not occur. This is a problem of the whole system not a left/right or Dem/Repub problem.

The government has effectively been stolen due in large part to the apathy of the American public.

dan said...

Christopher,
I agree that apathy is the problem. It's the biggest weakness in a democracy. When the public is angry, polititions do their bidding, but when they're in hibernation, powerful money interests call the shots.

A free press sounding the alarm might shake voters out of their stupor, but I'm not sure if even that would do it.

deb said...

Where is the Iraq war headed next?
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH


UP IN THE AIR

dan said...

Deb,
Hersh paints a pretty somber picture. We're in the quagmire that so many world leaders begged us to avoid. Americans will have a lot of blood on their hands no matter how this plays out, and a new generation of terrorists will seek their revenge.

I feel bad for the Democrats we elect to clean up this mess.

deb said...

"I feel bad for the Democrats we elect to clean up this mess."

This is the main reason that I worked so hard to get Wes Clark's message out. I, personally, am in line with H. Dean's philosophy just about across the board. I read and listened to Clark and believe that he has the capacity to create the best results (albiet no answer will undo all that has been done) as to the war in Iraq and the war on terror. He is also so centrist that he would appeal to just about everyone, unless they are CEO of some major corp.

One of the things that impressed me is that the guy has an IQ of 170. I understand my own limitations, and not trying to sound conceited, but I'm smarter than w and, honestly, that's not saying much. I would *really* like for my President to be a whole lot smarter than me.

I, also, think that the media will have a difficult time trashing Clark. He has a sort of distinction that would be hard to mock.

As a general he already knows the people that would be the best to help stablize the war. Like Carter, he isn't on any sort of ego trip, his goals in life are not personal. His goal, perhaps like mine and yours, is to use the knowledge available in order to create the best country and world that we can. Because Clark is altruistic he would appoint powerful people to assist in the endeavor of making the country (and world) a better place. On the other hand, power seekers, who are by nature on an ego trip, tend to resent those that might "show them up", and tend to appoint only those that *know* who's boss.

If we manage to get a democratic majority in Congress in the 06 elections the spin in the media will begin to lay *all* of the blame for every problem we now face upon them. Congress has a bad reputation now, it will have zero popularity if we get a dem majority. Not sure where that will put us for the 08 elections, but if we try to wait until 08, more serious damage will be done.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Clark would run as an independent...

dan said...

Deb,
You've made a strong case for Wes Clark and I respect your opinion. I just wish we could swap Wes for W right away.
I hope we can retake Congress this fall. The problems are too urgent to wait until 08 to address them.

Judy B. said...

I know most of you are avid Democrats.. been there, done that myself... but sometimes i don't see a lot of difference in the way the two parties operate.

i am really looking for a way to address issues and the only way that anything is going to get done is by forging a coalition of the best and the brightest, no matter what the party label...

Maybe when you live in the deep south you do not ever have the opportunity to see Republicans and Dems working together. When you take away the"one issue mentality" and have a common concern, it is possible for legislators to sit down and make things happen. the combined delegations from Washington, Oregon and Idaho are cooperating to keep our power supply from having the feds raise the rates.
There is no reason why they cannot work together on other common issues.
One issue at a time we need to forge alliances to pass much needed legislation on energy, environmental, transportation, and health care issues.

My motto is, it dosen't matter who gets the credit, as long as it gets done.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

Well said Judy. People, particularly my family, think I am and treat me like an avid democrat. That is not how I view myself. I vote mixed on the state and county level and democrat on the federal level as the lesser of....

The polarization of the electorate by marketing and branding techniques makes it difficult for us and politicians to step outside of those labels and the loser in this battle are the issues that need attention and the solutions to those issues.

I have to go back again to the idea that we absolutely need election finance and voting reform and we need media that is more interested in facts and news than ratings, market share and advertising revenue.

The biggest problem is the voting public. The majority of people will not become concerned and involved until their own chestnuts are roasting on the fire.

dan said...

Judy,Christopher
I understand your frustration with party politics. If we could remove the hugh impact money has on the process, maybe we could just vote for some smart people, have them study and discuss issues, and legislate accordingly. But that's not how it is. For now, the Democratic Party best represents my views. It's a flawed system but it's the reality of the moment.

Cheryl V said...

Personally, I like a lot of what the Green Party has to say. But until the election process is cleaned up, we have to put up with the two parties. Between the two, on issues of economic fairness the Republican Party is usually bad, and the Democratic Party is often bad.

The sad reality is that whenever I try to talk to relatives and many neighbors about anything, I get shunned, insulted, or told that Abortion is the one and only issue to worry about.

Until we can pry a few minds open enough to think, rather than reflex, nothing is going to change.

Judy B. said...

Cheryl, i believe that the Green party coould make some inroads in more environmentally districts. All it takes ids a few independent or third party menbers in the congress to make a difference. so if you know any candidates that you like, support them with all your might..
We need to break the strangle hold The Republicans have, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be democrats.

deb said...

Judy, I'm as Green as they get. But, I will vote a strait dem ticket, unless the dem is just a repub in disguise. Why? I am a realist, the country was 50/50 in the last election and anyone who is running on a platform that is even a smidge left of the radical right will ensure that the repub gets elected. I wish that it weren't so.

Any repub that is sent to DC will continue to vote to "stay the course" in the war on terror, erode our civil rights at home, expand the deficit, destroy the environment, support torture of our detainees, spend taxes for faith-based charities, give no-bid contracts to former employers, and on and on. Look at any of their voting records for the last 5 years.

We, as citizens *must* get this bunch out. At that time we can rally to support actually cleaning up government instead of giving it lip service. If we achieve getting the special interst money out of government and enforcing the media to be neutral then I'm for voting for whoever you want.

We have to get from here to there first and the only chance is through the dem party, even if they are not who we really like. It's the only choice for those of us who see what this administration is doing. Voting for anyone else will ensure that the country stays on its' current course and frankly that scares me more than any terror threat.

Marilynn M said...

We need to start raising hell over the electronic voting machines or it isn't going to matter who we vote for.

We also need to send our bit of money directly to the candidates we want. I don't want Joe Biden to get one dime of my money.

Christopher C. in Hawaii said...

I am trying to crack one nut at a time, so I have been working on my own family, getting them some real alternative information.

My brother has finally taken to writing some real thoughts and questions as opposed to standard Bushbot fare. This is the last e-mail I sent him today. In a way if we each can talk to those closest to us and at the very least get them interested and engaged that would be a step in the right direction.

Begin e-mail
You remember Barney Fife in Andy Griffiths, "Nip It, Nip It In The Bud" line? We went to war with Iraq to prevent a trend towards the euro being accepted for oil payments and to make our presense there a deterrant to that happening any further. We also went to Iraq to get the oil there flowing again which could not happen as long as Saddam was in power. Would Iraq under sanctions taking euros, which they did, Dad doesn't think they did, hurt the US economy and the dollar? No it would not. Would other countries seeing Iraq get away with it be encouraged to do the same? Yes they may have been.

I have a feeling this DP World, the UAE company that is going to be doing the US port work is also linked to keeping the dollar the main oil currency. By giving them such a big US contract(keep in mind it is a British company being sold, many owners are likely to hold shares of the new company) they will be more inclined to want dollars since that is how they will be paid here. By the way have you yet to see in any news report that one of their executives was nominated to a high federal position overseeing ports in the transportation agency by George Bush?

This is all like a game of chess. Each move is connected to all the others. Iraq is not a stand alone item and neither is Iran. You need to try and connect some of the dots and step back and look at the bigger picture. Think global trade and globalization and the big banks and investors and money that is made and invested in all this. There are money interests all over this planet, not just the US, that are not neccesarily concerned with the best interest of you, average Joe American.

I have not been watching hardly any TV news of late, not because I think it is all bad but because I have become addicted to this computer. I am not however just obsessing on politics. http://tropicalembellishments.blogspot.com/

So I am not up on what The Europeans, Russians and Chinese have been saying in regards to Irans nuclear program. You are not saying are you that they are ready to start a war over it? I am assuming they are just talking tough and stepping up to the plate to deal with the issue. I can assure you that none of the above want a confrontation started by us or the Isreali's by bombing any facilities in Iran. They would much prefer a diplomatic solution and to quiet things down so they can start buying oil in euros in the future. Europe is a major trading partner for that part of the world.

Remember just a few years back when Collin Powells son was head off the FCC and there was the uproar about allowing media companies to own more companies than they had been in the past? The issue is that Mom and Pop newspaper, radio and TV and now the internet were all being bought up by the big comglomerates like GE, Viacom, Disney, Murdoch and a few others. They now have a central office dictating editorial and news content across huge swaths of the market. This trend has accelerated in the last 10 years by all these mergers. What this does is it creates a monopoly of the news. There is a loss of diversity of Free speech. For these big media companies the bottom line is money. That comes first before anything else. The loser is the American public.

Does that mean I think the media should not be a money making business? Of course not! It is an observation of the forces at work. Big media lobbies congress, gets rules that make them more money. They don't want to rock the boat so they filter any news that will harm the status quo and I do not mean the Republican status quo. I am talking all politicians in washington who all have to kiss ass to get the money so thay can advertise to get elected, using the same advertising techniques that sell you beer, appealing to your baser emotions.

Mark the system is messed up big time. It is not a republican or democrat only problem. The entire federal government is being bought off piece by piece and most Americans have been distracted by the deliberate polarization on issues like gay marriage, abortion, religion, even the war on terror is used to divide us.

I want you and dad to both step off the party bus and think about what is best for your country and the future of your nieces and nephews. Do you really want to start a war with Iran that can lead to a global and unending confrontation over oil? Wouldn't it make more sense to say, "Screw you Arabia and your Oil, We are going to find new and renewable energy!" and not just pay lip service to it.

Judy B. said...

Marilyn, you might be interested in this web site...
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
I forwarded an email to Debbie about this issue (electronic voting).. maybe she can shed some more light on the subjuct as i deleted it...

Judy B. said...

Christipher... I am using much the same tactic..
I joined a local blog and we have been discussing many issues, but i am concentrating on health care and environmental issues...

I have just invited the blog community to join together in some action areas. We will see how that goes..

The bloggers on Breadcrust have given me much "juice" to pass on. i really appreciate all the discussion, critiques and even the disagreements... I must say that i miss John a little.. He made me stretch my thinking..

Debbie... you will particularly love this... My husvand got a phone call from his older brother this morning... He has voted straight Republican forever... and he is fed up.. and the issue that he is most concerened about is health care for the young/middle adults who have lost many jobs...
by the way... he lives in Iowa..

Change can happen..

deb said...

Judy, I have a great feeling that Iowa will vote blue this election.

People are finally starting to see the light.

Not trying to be cynical here, but is there *anything* that those in power have done in 5 years that has benefitted average people?

Christopher, You are smart so I'm guessing your brother is also. Keep working on him.

This one might be too radical for him, but I felt that it is worth reading and hope it is not where we are headed:

It’s Munich In America. There Will Be No Normandy.

Marilynn, Judy sent me an e-mail to petition Calif legislators to supeona the manufacturers of black box machines. Go to their website and look for it:

Black Box Voting.org

deb said...

oops...link didn't work Marilynn...trying again:

Black Box Voting

Judy B. said...

This link:
http://www.rferl.org/features/2000/11/01112000160846.asp


gives some historical (note the date)contest to the currency problems..ie Iraq and the euro vs the dollar.

Judy B. said...

The Bush administration, stung by the public outcry over the Dubai port deal, has launched a national security investigation of another Dubai-owned company set to take over plants in Georgia and Connecticut that make precision components used in engines for military aircraft and tanks.

To view the entire article, go to http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/01/AR2006030102192.html?referrer=emailarticle

deb said...

The state-owned Arab company Dubai Ports World pledged on Thursday to transfer operation of six U.S. port terminals to a U.S. entity, a move the White House said should settle a political firestorm surrounding the deal. Reuters

Hmmm...wonder which "US entity" has won that contract?

Cheryl V said...

Apparently, the only name to come up is Halliburton.
It could be very entertaining and educational, watching the politicians try to handle that one.

Cheryl V said...

The UAE is threatening to pull its trade with the US if we don't allow the port deal to go through. Just think what they can threaten if the deal does go through.

Judy B. said...

more on the port deal:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/10/politics/10ports.html?th&emc=th

Richard Yarnell said...

I don't usually listen to "This American Life." The stuff that interests me
doesn't appear often enough to warrant suffering through the usual preciousness.
But this morning was a different story.

Most of us have objected to the trampling of our legal machinery that the
Administration has perpetrated by setting up a barely off-shore prison at
Guantanamo Bay. I, for one, objected on theoretical or principled grounds and
figured that if the people incarcerated there are what the administration says
they are, they will stay locked up after a Habeas corpus proceeding.

As time goes on and the circumstances of some of the people locked up there leak
out, it has become obvious more than a few of them are not what we are told they
were. Having announced that they are the worst of the worst, the humiliation of
admitting they were/are innocents locked up by this bastion of freedom itself, is
too much for the government to bear. (We are told in the course of the program
they are N-LEC's ("No longer enemy combatants" - more accurate would be NW-LEC's,
"Never were...").

This American Life originates in Chicago. They do have archives you can listen
to using Real Audio (already on most computers - free d/l if you don't have it).
Unfortunately, they don't put the archives on line for about 2 weeks. I suggest
you find out whether the program for today is repeated in your area. It uses
interviews with, among others, lawyers who have "represented" captives, recites
the circumstances, mis-identifications, and the whole deadly key-stone cops
script that we have tolerated even while objecting to it. http://thislife.org/

This Habeas Schmabeas thing is bed rock to our system. There is no excuse, ever,
for ignoring it. It is shameful that we have allowed an out-of-control
government to test our level of tolerance. We've hinted we believe the FBI's
intrusion on one of Pomona's faculty to be an attempt to intimidate, to insinuate
wrong doing, and to imply possible connections with an unfriendly government.

It's time for this to stop. It's past time for us to demand of the Congress that
it do its duty. If we don't, we won't have much of a country to live in. The
Button Line for today's episode: "There's one way to find out, it's called Habeas
Corpus."

ryarnell@iwon.com

dan said...

Richard,
I couldn't find a re-broadcast of the story so I went to the Amnesty Int. site instead.

Guantanamo Bay

I'm sure your alarm is well founded.

Richard Yarnell said...

The "This American Life" broadcast (60 Min) was devoted entirely to interviews and background.

While the individuals caught up in the prison there are important, the real issue is whether we will allow the bill of rights to be stripped away, piecemeal, by a none-to-bright frontman, manipulated by the likes of Cheney and the military-industrial cabal that Ike warned us about.

Like I said, this is bedrock. If they can put anyone away on only one persons's word, without the oversight of a fair legal system, there's no point to preserving this 200 year old institution.

ryarnell@iwon.com

deb said...

Torture is something that people don't want to believe. America is torturing on a massive scale around the globe.

I suggest reading Pres. Carter's book "Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis" as there are several chapters on torture, the large number of prisoners we are holding, the young ages of some of these prisoners (9), and that we are sending some of the prisoners to countries that will torture them to death without our military doing it. He also tells of the McCain anti-torture bill suffering subterfuge in the 11th hour.

Here are links to a guy who is a 27 year veteran of the CIA. He is fighting our torture policies.

I Do Not Wish to Be Associated With Torture
By Ray McGovern


McGovern's bio

Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity

Contact Ray McGovern at rmcgovern@slschool.org

dan said...

"We Americans have become accustomed to letting our institutions do our sinning for us." Ray McGovern

Americans seem unaware or indifferent to the fact that they have blood on their hands. Richard & Deb, thank you both for your efforts in sounding the alarm.

I also read "Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis" by former Pres. Carter. Yes, there once was morality and wisdom present in the White House in sharp contrast to the current occupant who has neither quality.

dan said...

I stumbled on this "Good Morning America" video that showcased "Just Peace" a new book that was a joint product of Jimmy Carter and a remarkable teen, Mattie Stepanek.

"Just Peace"

This story didn't seem to fit any particular thread.

dan said...

Oprah's website features some of Mattie's works.

Mattie

deb said...

Dan, Thanks so much for the Mattie link. I have several of his books of poems and didn't realize that he and Presidant Carter were working on a book before he died. What an amazing kid, and what an amazing story of his relationship with Carter.

Marilynn talked about printing a samll paper and distributing it. Which made me start thinking of standing outside of fundamentalist Churches on Sunday mornings and handing out Carter's book. I'm actually debating whether my money would be of better use to the candidates or buying books to give away. Maybe Mattie's book would wake some people up.

That young man was such a hero, I'm hoping that he will continue to influence this world.

dan said...

I just tried to go to the "Just Peace" link and I found out I should have left instrutions. Click on the link then scroll to "Good Morning America". Click on that and then on the Carter/Mattie story.

Deb,
It sounds like you saw the video inspite of my lack of instructions.
I'm glad you enjoyed the links. I have to confess that I hadn't heard of Mattie and I'll have to get caught up on his poems.

Trying to figure out how best to spend your time and money to influence politics is always tough.

Giving away Mattie's book would be noble but people who read aren't the problem. The problem with Democracy is that non-readers get to vote. How do we influence that group who are so confident of their positions that they feel no need to even consider the facts?

dan said...

I'll bet Mattie would have agreed with this sentiment:

"...War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
-- John F. Kennedy

Richard Yarnell said...

Deb said: I'm actually debating whether my money would be of better use to the candidates or buying books to give away.

How many of the books in your personal library have you read more than once? There are categories that are one time reads.

For sometime now, Susan and I have participated in BookCrossing. The idea is this: You have a book you no longer need. Go to the BookCrossing site and register (it's a straight-up site). Provide as much information as you wish. Register your book by obtaining a unique number for it. Download and print a BookCrossing label and put in on the book. Leave the book someplace and hope that whoever finds it will tell you that and that your book will then take off to places you hadn't imagined for it.

People who find the book can log their opinions and let you know where they released it. Lots of books aren't heard of again. But if you get lucky,...

Start here: http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Layne

dan said...

Richard,
I've bookmarked the book crossing site. It sounds like fun plus a way to give some good books wider circulation. Thanks for the info.

deb said...

Thanks Richard. We recently moved and I gave away all of the books that aren't special to me. But, I'm a bookworm and already have some that I'd like to get into circulation. The Appalachian trail goes right through my little hamlet, so I will leave the books at the visitors center for hikers to pick up. Bookcrossing is a great idea.

Judy B. said...

I will try out your book circulation site richard...
My best way to circulate magazines is to take them to the doctors office and just leave them for others to read..